Ontologically speaking, how can GOD be proven

**bigboab** · 08-20-2009, 07:09 AM

[QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3274224]

Originally Posted by Recursacro

@Sez:

I suppose you could consider me an atheist. I practice many Buddhist values and beliefs though. I am against killing because I think all animals are equal. I don't kill insects, and I don't like it when people say that they have pets. One can't own another. Because of this, I'm also vegetarian.

I have one question for you, Sez. How has God helped you?

@MaxOverlord:

God is a name. I capitalize it because it's a proper noun, not because I worship the being the name represents. As for the "not knowing who my mother is", that was sarcasm aimed at Sez because of his questions on belief. You'll understand if you read his post.

I haven't much else to say towards you, except for that I ask for you try to contribute to the thread, and not pick apart my so-called logically grammatical errors.

So, the question for all of you:

How has God helped any of you?[/QUOTE

The thing I find interesting is that your sentence structure alone tells me you believe in a higher power. Now some may call it God...others The Way...movie lovers might prefer The Force....I also find it interesting that there are a few Buddhist's or those who practice some of the teachings to be the ones attacking Christianity......but then again..mans primal urge for dominance..which is what you are doing by attacking Christianity..trying to obtain dominance...is a program you can't uninstall...no matter how many days under the Bodhi tree. But hey...I couldn't care less what your validation rituals are..whether they be Communion or tossing tobacco into the air in the presence of an eagle....anyway...I believe you sincere in your interest as to what God has done to help any of us...

If there is a God then He/She has helped me a lot in my life. I have had a lot of accidents, illnesses in my lifetime. I have more stitches than a balaclava. I have come through them all in reasonable health for my age.

On the other hand I must also blame God for putting me in those predicaments. He/She must also take the blame. The way disasters and miracles are treated by religious people never ceases to amaze me. I can imagine the conversation between God and Moses as;

'O.K. Mo, You do the disasters and I will do the miracles'.

**bigboab** · 08-20-2009, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by sez

@recursacro,i don't really know what side you are on in this as from what i understand,you are saying that you don't believe in faith i.e you don't have it.However,last I checked both of these theories can't go the whole ten yard if they were to be put through a thorough scrutiny and clearly at some point they both shall come down to faith.Now that's that.

If you are an atheist, why do you grimace when drowning a caught mouse? If you are an atheist,why do you capture a fly or spider and let it go outside?
More generally, if you believe that there is no connection between yourself and other creatures, whether that be an "eye in the sky" entity, or some form of collective unconsciousness, or any other "larger than yourself" phenomenon, why is there any harm whatever in killing a creature?
DOA answers:
- There is some selfish rationale to maintaining an eco-balance. If we all killed creatures willy-nilly, there'd be no creatures left.
Answer: nonsense. This is one mouse; one fly.
- You are a product of society/your physiological emotions. It is conditioned into you to shrink from needless death.
Answer: That is simply passing the buck, pretending you are a victim. You should be able to throw off that pressure and believe in - and practice - your own atheist philosophy.
So do all atheists kill creatures as it is convenient? If not, why not?

I am sorry(there I go again!) but I take offence at your statement. What you are basically saying is that non-religious people can't be good people. What utter claptrap. I have met many good and bad people on both sides of the 'divide'. How you can associate compassion to other living creatures as the property of religions. Especially as those same religions have allowed their members to slaughter millions of people of other religions in the name of their religion. If all religious people practice what they preached then I think, maybe, you would have a very small chance of being correct.

**Recursacro** · 08-20-2009, 02:12 PM

[QUOTE=bigboab;3274443]

Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

If there is a God then He/She has helped me a lot in my life. I have had a lot of accidents, illnesses in my lifetime. I have more stitches than a balaclava. I have come through them all in reasonable health for my age.

On the other hand I must also blame God for putting me in those predicaments. He/She must also take the blame. The way disasters and miracles are treated by religious people never ceases to amaze me. I can imagine the conversation between God and Moses as;

'O.K. Mo, You do the disasters and I will do the miracles'.

Ok, bigboab, this is the sort of answer that I was expecting.

Let's think about a couple things, please:
Back when I skateboarded (did for about 4 years - got sponsored by the local skate shop) I never broke a bone. Now, I can say that God was there watching over me, and made it so that even though I ripped up my back so it was raw, I never broke a bone.
OR
I can look at it from a more secular point of view and acknowledge that I drink 32 oz. of milk a day, and I eat extremely well. I also have very fast reflexes, and I know how to fall. (there's a technique)

You say you've been sick... who hasn't? Stitches are basically routine, and I've had tons of them. I had a half inch deep gash in my chin (from skating) and it healed really well. I even went snowboarding the next day.

I think what you are saying, in logical terms, is that you have a good immune system. Now, if I say this, you're probably going to think to yourself: "Well, thank you, Lord. I appreciate the good immune system."

Do you think it has anything to do with genetics and inheritance?

Moreover, don't blame God for putting you into those predicaments. Take the blame yourself. It's your fault. Say it to yourself: "It was my fault that I got sick and had so many stitches. I should be more careful, and I should pay more attention to how I eat and my vitamin intake. I'm going to go wash my hands!"

Now, please don't take offence to that up there. I'm just trying to take everything and put it into a more secular view, so you can look at it from there.

I'd also like to thank you for indirectly defending me against Sez's assumptions. Thanks.

**bigboab** · 08-20-2009, 06:43 PM

[QUOTE=Recursacro;3274572]

Originally Posted by bigboab

Ok, bigboab, this is the sort of answer that I was expecting.

Let's think about a couple things, please:
Back when I skateboarded (did for about 4 years - got sponsored by the local skate shop) I never broke a bone. Now, I can say that God was there watching over me, and made it so that even though I ripped up my back so it was raw, I never broke a bone.
OR
I can look at it from a more secular point of view and acknowledge that I drink 32 oz. of milk a day, and I eat extremely well. I also have very fast reflexes, and I know how to fall. (there's a technique)

You say you've been sick... who hasn't? Stitches are basically routine, and I've had tons of them. I had a half inch deep gash in my chin (from skating) and it healed really well. I even went snowboarding the next day.

I think what you are saying, in logical terms, is that you have a good immune system. Now, if I say this, you're probably going to think to yourself: "Well, thank you, Lord. I appreciate the good immune system."

Do you think it has anything to do with genetics and inheritance?

Moreover, don't blame God for putting you into those predicaments. Take the blame yourself. It's your fault. Say it to yourself: "It was my fault that I got sick and had so many stitches. I should be more careful, and I should pay more attention to how I eat and my vitamin intake. I'm going to go wash my hands!"

Now, please don't take offence to that up there. I'm just trying to take everything and put it into a more secular view, so you can look at it from there.

I'd also like to thank you for indirectly defending me against Sez's assumptions. Thanks.

What is the point of a God that can't take the blame for things that go wrong. " Thank you Lord for allowing my son/daughter to be blown up, burned, buried alive etc on 9/11. It was their fault, they should not have gone to work that day.

p.s. You might have given them a warning.

I am sorry but you have your head buried in the sand if you can't see, for example, that people killed in natural disasters are not to blame in any way. I could go on and on but it would be pointless.

**MaxOverlord** · 08-20-2009, 11:09 PM

[QUOTE=bigboab;3274669]

Originally Posted by Recursacro

What is the point of a God that can't take the blame for things that go wrong. " Thank you Lord for allowing my son/daughter to be blown up, burned, buried alive etc on 9/11. It was their fault, they should not have gone to work that day.

p.s. You might have given them a warning.

I am sorry but you have your head buried in the sand if you can't see, for example, that people killed in natural disasters are not to blame in any way. I could go on and on but it would be pointless.

...i don't assume that God is to take the blame for my own actions..I would say that is more the attitude of a child...only I'm not sure that a child..shall we say ages 3 thru 6? has the capacity to reason a God in their mind...mind meaning consciousness. i know people who seem to only wanna credit God with the bad things in life...thus negating any responsibility toward the individual. "free will" or not...ultimately it's you and you alone who act...I don't necessarily believe God to be too involved in the everyday actions of Man...let alone subjecting He into minute details of our ritualistic lives. I prefer a Watcher...if you will...a very slight nudge here-not there. Patience and Grace....yielding always to the infinite Truth. If there is a God...and I don't know with any amount of certainty that there is...I would hope just a little bit that I would get some credit for my own ability to decide. I've been given a consciousness thru the apple...let me use it.

**bigboab** · 08-21-2009, 07:35 AM

[QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3274808]

Originally Posted by bigboab

...i don't assume that God is to take the blame for my own actions..I would say that is more the attitude of a child...only I'm not sure that a child..shall we say ages 3 thru 6? has the capacity to reason a God in their mind...mind meaning consciousness. i know people who seem to only wanna credit God with the bad things in life...thus negating any responsibility toward the individual. "free will" or not...ultimately it's you and you alone who act...I don't necessarily believe God to be too involved in the everyday actions of Man...let alone subjecting He into minute details of our ritualistic lives. I prefer a Watcher...if you will...a very slight nudge here-not there. Patience and Grace....yielding always to the infinite Truth. If there is a God...and I don't know with any amount of certainty that there is...I would hope just a little bit that I would get some credit for my own ability to decide. I've been given a consciousness thru the apple...let me use it.

You are talking more like a Buddhist that a Christian;

[QUOTE]Buddha taught people how to realize enlightenment for themselves. He taught that awakening comes through one's own direct experience, not through beliefs and dogmas.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly.

I think I will become a Buddhist. I have the fugure for it.

**MaxOverlord** · 08-21-2009, 05:31 PM

[QUOTE=bigboab;3274928][QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3274808]

You are talking more like a Buddhist that a Christian;

Buddha taught people how to realize enlightenment for themselves. He taught that awakening comes through one's own direct experience, not through beliefs and dogmas.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly.

I think I will become a Buddhist. I have the fugure for it.

I'm curious bb...how does a Christian talk? I believe I mentioned the concepts of Grace as well as a reference to the apple which Eve bit. I acknowledge Truth,which is a reference to Jesus..."I am the way,the truth,and the life." I imagined His play within my own daily life..however minimal. I believe you are hearing and or picking trigger words from my sentences....next time try hearing what I'm saying..not listening for what you want to hear me say.

**bigboab** · 08-21-2009, 06:44 PM

[QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3275134][QUOTE=bigboab;3274928][QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3274808]

You are talking more like a Buddhist that a Christian;

I'm curious bb...how does a Christian talk? I believe I mentioned the concepts of Grace as well as a reference to the apple which Eve bit. I acknowledge Truth,which is a reference to Jesus..."I am the way,the truth,and the life." I imagined His play within my own daily life..however minimal. I believe you are hearing and or picking trigger words from my sentences....next time try hearing what I'm saying..not listening for what you want to hear me say.[/QUOTE]

That would be difficult to do considering the fragmentation of your posts.

I will ask the next question once again

Who was the first person to be in contact with your god, where and how and witnesses present?

**MaxOverlord** · 08-21-2009, 10:30 PM

[QUOTE=bigboab;3275189][QUOTE=MaxOverlord;3275134][QUOTE=bigboab;3274928]

Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

You are talking more like a Buddhist that a Christian;

I'm curious bb...how does a Christian talk? I believe I mentioned the concepts of Grace as well as a reference to the apple which Eve bit. I acknowledge Truth,which is a reference to Jesus..."I am the way,the truth,and the life." I imagined His play within my own daily life..however minimal. I believe you are hearing and or picking trigger words from my sentences....next time try hearing what I'm saying..not listening for what you want to hear me say.[/QUOTE]

That would be difficult to do considering the fragmentation of your posts.

I will ask the next question once again

Who was the first person to be in contact with your god, where and how and witnesses present?