How "legal" is it to create a tracker?

[sear]

lol this is a funny thread.

Nemrod was just pointing out we shouldn't cloak what we do in self righteousness. We all want to get shit we'd have to pay for for free and that's about all there is to it. Sure you can argue about doing it for a 'cause' but at the end of the day the reason anyone uses torrents is purely selfish (not that there's anything wrong with that).

[megabyteme]

I am not trying to come across as self-righteous. I may be, but I am not trying. What I am trying to do is make an argument that we are not damaging anything by sharing. There has never been any evidence that we have hurt the movie industry. Blockbusters are setting new records every year. The music industry doesn't seem hurt. They whine A LOT, but the execs are desperately trying to hold on to the glory days when they had complete control of who got famous, how many albums/movies were released, who got played on the radio, if you could make copies or not, etc. We have had enough. We are tired of being told what we can have, when we can have it, where we view/listen to it, what devices we can use.

At least the software companies have not declared war on us. A recent slump in gaming systems and media was seen as a slowdown in the economy and a point where consumers had already purchased their consoles. I rarely champion Microsoft, but they are aware that their OS gets pirated IMMEDIATELY, yet they are not declaring war on us. I gotta give them credit for that!

Television. As I mentioned, there is a massive amount of product placement. Nothing gets into a show without paying for the privilege to be there. Just look at the background, or what the actors are wearing, their clothes, watches, beverages, even listen to the background music. We are being marketed to. Constantly. Movies are very much the same. They have already seen large returns well before the first ticket is purchased.

I am not a crusader, but I have to look at the possible outcomes. Give corporations back the control they once had, or let the consumer decide what they will accept as their media. "Free" is here to stay. Companies can call us "Pirates" (which is such an inaccurate misnomer, but it sounds kinda cool to be associated with it) The only thing we are doing is sharing media amongst like-minded, or interested consumers. Once the industries figure out how to release control and still make money, they won't have a problem with us. Right now, they see every copy of every file as lost revenue. It is not. Many people are willing to view a show or listen to a song as long as it is free. Any cost above that and we have no interest.

Is this self-righteousness or a view of change brought on by a revolution in technology that takes control from the corporations and gives it to people? We are simply battling for that control.

[Nemrod]

I am not trying to come across as self-righteous. I may be, but I am not trying. What I am trying to do is make an argument that we are not damaging anything by sharing. There has never been any evidence that we have hurt the movie industry. Blockbusters are setting new records every year. The music industry doesn't seem hurt. They whine A LOT, but the execs are desperately trying to hold on to the glory days when they had complete control of who got famous, how many albums/movies were released, who got played on the radio, if you could make copies or not, etc. We have had enough. We are tired of being told what we can have, when we can have it, where we view/listen to it, what devices we can use.

At least the software companies have not declared war on us. A recent slump in gaming systems and media was seen as a slowdown in the economy and a point where consumers had already purchased their consoles. I rarely champion Microsoft, but they are aware that their OS gets pirated IMMEDIATELY, yet they are not declaring war on us. I gotta give them credit for that!

Television. As I mentioned, there is a massive amount of product placement. Nothing gets into a show without paying for the privilege to be there. Just look at the background, or what the actors are wearing, their clothes, watches, beverages, even listen to the background music. We are being marketed to. Constantly. Movies are very much the same. They have already seen large returns well before the first ticket is purchased.

I am not a crusader, but I have to look at the possible outcomes. Give corporations back the control they once had, or let the consumer decide what they will accept as their media. "Free" is here to stay. Companies can call us "Pirates" (which is such an inaccurate misnomer, but it sounds kinda cool to be associated with it) The only thing we are doing is sharing media amongst like-minded, or interested consumers. Once the industries figure out how to release control and still make money, they won't have a problem with us. Right now, they see every copy of every file as lost revenue. It is not. Many people are willing to view a show or listen to a song as long as it is free. Any cost above that and we have no interest.

Is this self-righteousness or a view of change brought on by a revolution in technology that takes control from the corporations and gives it to people? We are simply battling for that control.

There´s life outside USA and 1st World Counties.

Let me tell you something: 10 years ago in my country there were at least 10 recording companies, besides the great studios representatives... SONY, Universal, etc.... you could find video & discs stores in any street. Today that type of commerce is rarer than an ice-cream parlor in the North Pole. Our artists moved to other countries and record their music there and come here to visit their relatives, if they have some left.
The same applies to editorials or publishing houses.
Blockbuster is broke, there are not video stores... well, there are, but what you get are DVDR downloaded from the net.
And I could tell you more things.

Now mate, don´t say that piracy has not hurt entertainment industry.

Other thing is if you believe that´s well deserved, that they have insane profits and that prices are a scam, or whatever you want. I could agree with you but that it´s another subject and another debate.

By the way, I am not defending big companies, I am pirating since I was 17, and proud of it. I began with a 56 kbps modem connection, back in 1996, and I´ll die pirating in any way the future has for us.
I really love this shit, I enjoy every single thing that piracy implies, and I can give you 10 or more reasons why I do this, but I´ll never tell you that I am a freedom fighter or that I do it in the name of higher values.

[That1Guy]

Im gonna have to agree, I torrent for stuff so I dont have to buy it. Would I pay to see/play/listen toeverything I download..... HELL NO. But if I didnt have access to "sharing" then I would fork out a few more dollars here or there.

That being said I wouldnt say I torrent just for stuff, I do enjoy sharing on a few select trackers.

/me stalks sear at fst now!!!!

[Nemrod]

/That1Guy stalks sear at fst now!!!!

[megabyteme]

OK, Nemrod. I think we got off to a bad start. I did not like the and you were pretty brief. I think we share a lot of the same joys, if not the same interests.

I was not aware of the changes in your entertainment industries. Actually, I am not really sure where you live. Is your flag accurate? It is hard to tell here...

I will argue that these are changesdue to technology. Every industry has had technological advances that have shaken things up. Even ended some professions while creating new ones. If the record companies have left your area, send them a sample of your music via email. Music studios gone? Grab a copy of ProTools, some training CD's and a pc. When you get something professional, send it out.

Industries are not the only ones facing difficulties with the changes. Artists are also. Some have gotten noticed by putting their music online. Good stuff seems to get noticed. Before, if a record exec did not like it, you were done. No other options. Now you can create your art and have a worldwide audience- if it is good.

I, too, enjoy all of the benefits of file-sharing and the internet. I don't like to hear that something that is so great and freeing is bad, wrong, evil, etc. I often get frustrated with classmates who are struggling to find materials for their papers that have bought into the industries' marketing campaign that file-sharing is bad.

The publishing house will not make a single dollar from me borrowing a book from a classmate, professor, library, or if I download it. Some materials are worth purchasing. I buy reference books. I buy all of my textbooks (and I pay dearly for them). If the industries got their way, we would pay multiple times for the same song, video- depending on when and where we want to watch it. Recently, I read an article that some asshat music company believed that they deserved money every time the phone played their song- they considered it a public performance!

The notion that file-sharing is wrong needs to stop. We certainly should not call each other thieves! This is the greatest technology that has ever existed. People without money can now learn how to do (almost) anything they want. Information is readily available. It pains me that so many people shun the thought of accessing what is already available.

There is a war between the industries and people who consume their media. We have seen how they acted when they had total control. This is the opposite. We are now in control. I just refuse to say, admit, or even think that "my" side are the "Bad Guys". We are not! But we are the ones in control.

[DanielleD87]

those butts have got to be plastic or something... :/
Anyways, sharing information is not a bad thing. If it wasn't for sharing information we would still be in the dark ages.

Trackers only share information. The users are a different story entirely.

Also, don't mix the gaming market up with this. Video games currently are approaching the whole Atari issue back from the 80's. There are two many games on the market and because of that each and every company aims to make their games cheaper to compete with the desaturation in the market.

[n00bz0r]

its as legal as growing marijuana in your backyard in washington..

[megabyteme]

How are the laws in Shangra-La?

I gotta give you credit for a very concise and solid point, n00bz0r. (pretty darn funny, too)

Had you mentioned another state, it would have been far better for your argument. Washington is one of very few states that has passed a very strong initiative in favor of medical marijuana. Details of the law can be found here:ACLU of Washington

In 2008, the Washington State Department of Health defined a 60-day supply of medical marijuana as no more than 24 ounces of usable marijuana and no more than 15 plants, at any stage of growth. Patients who possess no more than this amount will be presumed to be in compliance with the law; patients who require more than this amount still maintain the right to present evidence of their personal, actual medical need in court. More information about the Department of Health's rule may be found at the following Web site:

Enough people got together and fought against laws that were not beneficial. It is probably a stretch to say the same thing could happen regarding "fair use" and copyright laws, but I believe that this kind of initiative can help make things more reasonable. Right now, the copyright laws and private citizens are being abused. This needs to stop.

[Rart]

I have finally got off my ass and read my own thread (thanks for transforming my thread into a book megabyteme).

As to megabyteme, I feel your ways are rather idealist as has been mentioned before. When you mentioned true blood, it reminded me of Hulu. That is how I believe this problem could be addressed. Yes, these companies are rather aggressive in their ways. But like any other company, they need to make money. Letting everything go free, while sounding great, is a great way to put companies in bankruptcy. However, it is their aggressive policies that end up alienating people like megabyte and turning them to piracy. Yes, in the grand scheme of things everything is being marketed to you. In chuck, everyone fricking used an Iphone. In supernatural, I think I recall and mac and a dell laptop constantly being used. To make it worse, if you aren't there exactly when the show is aired, or you don't have tivo, your stuck having to shell out over 30-40$ for per DVD, which is ridiculous. Why pay 30-40$ for entertainment when you can get it free?

Thats where Hulu comes in. It still has advertisements. It still contains the insidious marketing in every episode. I recall when I went through and watched lost on the ABC player, after 30 seconds it gave you the option to end the commercial, but it would keep on going if you didn't click the button. Often I mostly forgot and end up watching the entire commercial anyway. Since I am not incredibly bored out of my mind with the barrage of commercials, I end up watching the one or two commercials per break more carefully. In addition, on TV if I knew it was a commercial break I might leave for 5-10 minutes and come back, completely destroying the point of the commercial. Add in the fact that if I miss a episode I might completely destroy the storyline, so the only other option is forking over 30-40$ on a DVD to find the episodes. Why wouldn't I just illegally download it? Its so much simpler.

Hulu is convenient and easy to use, and the streaming aspect means rarely, if any wait times for loading. The commercials aren't nearly as obtrusive, and I can find episodes easily. If more industries starting using the model, and maybe movies/music could be implemented with similar models, I believe piracy could be greatly reduced. Instead of using bully tactics and powerful lawyers, just use what the customer wants, after all, the customer is always right.

As to another question, it has been mentioned that trackers hosted in other countries where its legal can't be touched by the law. But what if someone from the US(or maybe sweden or something), decided to start up another TPB by buying a server from Hong Kong? What then? The servers in Hong Kong, but the citizens in an area where establishing trackesr is risky and illegal business. What then?