Let's talk about BT

[MadIrish]

Really good thread this, some interesting and well thought out responses

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

After using a bit of the old napster at uni I had some time away from the net, when I got back online at home a few years ago I managed to pretty much bypass fasttrack and gneutella and arrived straight at BT (apart from Soulseek). I've always been into music, films and games but had got exceeding frustrated that all my old (bought) vhs & casette tapes were becoming obselete, so I set about replacing them initially, and then expanding my collections. There's been points over the years that downloading has become almost an obsession, trying to get everything I could ever possibly want to watch/listen to/play etc, but these days I'm much more selective and prefer to pick up rare or interesting things and help keep them alive for others who'll enjoy them as I do.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

I was very lucky in many ways that my first introduction to private trackers was by a real life friend, to a site that I much later discovered was much coveted by many (for all the wrong reasons). Over time, through open signups or randomly offered invites I gained access to a lot of other great sites, but for ages I considered that first site to be the ideal tracker for me. It felt personal, like I was sharing with a small group of real people round the globe rather than just faceless masses, and I met some great people there through random convo's started over a torrent comment or an upload etc.

I'm not sure I still feel the same though. Things change, it started to feel like a lot of new people on that site were there for the wrong reasons, or maybe I've just gained more perspective or become more cynical. I still use that site, and like it, but I would no longer call it ideal. Nor would I call any other site that either, some are more or less ideal for a particular niche content, but all have their up and downsides. Content is the main thing for me, "community" is a much over-used word where torrent sites are concerned, I'm not a big one for irc and most of their forums are pretty naff so I'm rarely that bothered with them (I run a football related forum anyway which takes up most of my chatting time on the net), however its always nice to find sites where members go out of their way to help others out, and that happens on most of my favourites.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

Definitely enough, I think I've signed up for like 1 or 2 new sites in the last year or so, certainly no more than that. I think "too many" depends on what sort of thing you tend to share, I certainly don't think anyone needs more than a small handful of 0-day sites and always laugh when I see people trying to get into some l33t site when they obviously have access to many others with exactly the same content. I've always liked to spread my downloading / seeding of certain things around a bit so I do maintain active accounts on probably around a dozen sites, of which say a couple are music related, a couple gaming, several for old and new films, a couple of larger 0-days and then one or two smaller trackers. I've had several prunes of my bookmarks in the not so distant past, and probably will have another again soon.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I just try to keep out of all that as much as possible. A lot has changed in BT over the years, I could go on forever about silly levels lists, the proliferation of seedboxes & pointless account "buffering", trading and anti-trading, inter-site disputes, speed whores, money making, back stabbing and "stealing", but I won't as this post is well long enough already, and none of it really effects me massively. I definitely preferred things the way they used to be, or perhaps that was just the way I perceived them, but what can you do? Ultimately the main purpose of BT for me has always been and will always be to share files, everything else is coincidental.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

Lol, honour among thieves and all that? I think everyone has their own standards, personally I'm usually quite respectful of people in real life and see no need to change that on the interwebs. I respect every site I'm on's rules, and understand that I'm a guest there, they call the shots and if I don't like it I can simply leave and go elsewhere. I believe in seeding because I want to, not because I'm told to. I wish more people felt the same but i'm not going to lose sleep when they don't, there's much more important things in the world.

[Intr4ns1t]

got me thinking .

That's all I wanted was to make people actually think about this thing instead of the usual read and react that is normal on forums.

It occurred to me just now, that I haven't answered my own questions.

/me grits his teeth and starts his answers

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

Well, at the outset, I had one goal with computers, namely to find mixed martial arts fights. I spent lots of money on MMA dvds before I started torrenting, and was limited to two organizations, Pride and UFC. A friend of mine offered me a free laptop because he thought it kind of ridiculous that a 30+ year old man didn't have any experience with computers.

Up to that point I was a serious technophobe, and was quite sure that I would use it for a week, then move on to some other interest. Well, obviously I was wrong I found a torrent on mininova that belonged to MMAtracker, and that put me on the hunt for how to join that place as at the time, they were closed for signups. And so the hunt began.

I perused several forums at that point trying to figure out how to find a way into MMAtracker, and was entranced by the atmosphere. Many of us may not see the forest for the trees in this world, but there is a lot of passion in BT, and that passion made me curious. Why did all these people feel so strongly about what they were doing?

That led me to private forums. My first was DarksideRG, and holy shit did that blow my mind. Thousands of people talking about a whole realm of things I had no clue about. I joined a site that was just starting out that advertised that fact at said forum, and within a week was a staffer there.

Once that happened, I really started to see alot of invite forums with the goal of advertising that site :gasp: As I spent more time talking to the members of a couple of those forums, I realized what a huge knowledge base was available to me to learn how to use that laptop. I was hooked at that point as I have an unending thirst for knowledge, and was regularly getting that thirst sated. Now, it should be noted that that initial site failed miserably, but it was a good experience for me in that I learned what doesn't work.

The point now is to try to have some sort of impact. That's all. Not in an "epeen" sort of way, I don't really give a shit if people online like me or not, I just want to have the opportunity to change peoples way of thinking on anything. even if it's not to my personal view, I only want people to think about the world around them, and I have an opportunity to do so in BT. I also have an affinity for the mindset of what we do, namely get shit for free.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that suits those needs?

Three things would be required for a tracker to be ideal to me.

1. All the content that I regularly seek.
2. Like minded individuals involved
3. Staff that care about their users happiness

Because my tastes are so varied and specific, no I'm not a member of one tracker that fits those parameters, but I do have a combination of trackers that all together do fit those desires. Number 2 is easy, it's just a matter of taking the time to find those individuals in any group. Number three is the tough one, but there are plenty of sites out there that have the end user in mind.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

I am on more trackers that I need to be sure. But, as a staffer, I think that I am required to be on some sites for more than files, especially in light of the belief I hold that there is a bigger community involved. On one hand it has to be a detriment to some of those sites, but on the other, who am I to say I won't have something valid to add at some point?

I don't mean to make it sound like i am a member of 5 million trackers, as I'm not. But were I a normal user, I'd certainly have fewer sites. I grab files from all the sites I am a member of, and I seed the files I grab for as long as I can, so I don't feel too bad about not snatching 100gb a week on some sites.

I think the definition of too many is really up to the individual, but I will echo a common answer in this thread that if you are just logging in to 50 trackers once a week to make sure you don't get pruned, you most certainly have too many trackers. I see no need for 50 trackers for anyone tbh, and the folks that have that many or more trackers are wasting not only the trackers time and resources, but their own as well.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I am going to make a serious effort to be as brief as possible in this question as I could probably expound on it for days

First off, there is a definitive mob rule in BT and it has been a evident to me from the start. The biggest problem with that is the fact that there is no common agreed upon set of behavioural guidelines for new people to use to lead them in this field. Only the current vaporous and ill defined whims of the mob.

As bt has exploded, that problem has gotten worse and worse and tbh, I don't think there can be a resolution of it. A need has risen for new ways to approach how to keep sites active, and with that need, so grows the confusion about what is required of you, the end user, to be considered active.

This has led to a very wide difference in that definition on the part of staffers and the core members of those sites. Which in turn leads to a lot of disagreements about what is the common law in BT. Just by virtue of the nature of what we do, logic would state that a free hand is implicit, but it's not. We are expected to be respectful of the members who compose that core of sites, but can suffer extreme repercussions if we deviate from that respect, especially if we dabble in the bigger community.

It's created a need to learn, on our own usually, what is acceptable and what is not, but this field holds little in the way of forgiveness, and that is hard to swallow for me. So yes, my actions are affected by that, and I often times find myself biting my tongue on a plethora of subjects for simple self preservation of me and my site. I'm not trying to imply that I hold excessively different views from the majority on lots of subjects, just that I feel a need to curtail full and unfettered discussion because I just don't have the time to explain myself 20 different ways to 20 different people.

Do you feel there is a ethos neccessary when interacting, and if so, what does it entail?

Bluntly speaking, I think yes, and I use the rules I practice when dealing with people in real life, tranlsated to BT. Be nice till given a reason not to be nice, be understanding when understanding is called for, sharing knowledge with those who possess less of it than I do, and excercising caution when caution is called for. Pretty simple really, but that pretty much covers almost any situation, real life or internet, that we might come across.


Hope this makes a bit clearer where I personally stand on these subjects I have so avidly heard other peoples thoughts on and thanks to everyone for taking this thread seriously. It's very cool to hear all of your folks' thoughts andd I hope some people read this thread and learn a little bit about what makes BT tick.

[BrianH]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

[Intr4ns1t]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Well, first off, the only thing I ever traded in my life was baseball cards when I was a teenager, and secondly, all that was beaten into the ground more than a year ago, but thank you for the well spoken and greatly enlightening post about how you view bit torrent.

[DonkeyPacker]

Well, first off, the only thing I ever traded in my life was baseball cards when I was a teenager, and secondly, all that was beaten into the ground more than a year ago, but thank you for the well spoken and greatly enlightening post about how you view bit torrent.

Fuck baseball I traded Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I think I might still have my Reptile deck even...

[MadIrish]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Or maybe this thread's not about that. Seriously though

First off, there is a definitive mob rule in BT and it has been a evident to me from the start. The biggest problem with that is the fact that there is no common agreed upon set of behavioural guidelines for new people to use to lead them in this field. Only the current vaporous and ill defined whims of the mob.

As bt has exploded, that problem has gotten worse and worse and tbh, I don't think there can be a resolution of it. A need has risen for new ways to approach how to keep sites active, and with that need, so grows the confusion about what is required of you, the end user, to be considered active.

This has led to a very wide difference in that definition on the part of staffers and the core members of those sites. Which in turn leads to a lot of disagreements about what is the common law in BT. Just by virtue of the nature of what we do, logic would state that a free hand is implicit, but it's not. We are expected to be respectful of the members who compose that core of sites, but can suffer extreme repercussions if we deviate from that respect, especially if we dabble in the bigger community.

It's created a need to learn, on our own usually, what is acceptable and what is not, but this field holds little in the way of forgiveness, and that is hard to swallow for me.

Some interesting points in there (and in the rest of your post but I'll stick to that bit for now). I think you're mostly right about the mob rule thing, that the problem is indeed getting worse and that it is indeed hard to see any resolution to it. I do think though that its easy to forget, when active on forums like this one or the countless other invite/BT related sites that no doubt exist, or as someone involved in running or staffing a tracker, that a lot of members on sites don't necessarily participate in, or even have a great awareness of, a lot of the issues surrounding BT. I know I breezed along in blissful ignorance of a lot of the politics for ages, simply downloading and seeding things I liked, maintaining decent ratios despite my then 25kb/s upload, and only ever really having positive interactions with other members or staff. Its only when you really look into things a bit deeper, which many people may never do, that you find what you assumed to be univerally held behavioural codes, based on nothing greater than common sense and courtesy, are not so universal after all.

My first proper exposure to that was probably a thread on here I found linked through my old fav. sites' forum. That site was (and is) focused on privacy, I never thought anyone else would have an issue with that until I read some of the vitriol, deliberately destructive attacks on the way it was run etc. I found that quite shocking, not because most of it was nonsense, but because I couldn't at the time imagine why people would want to behave like that about a small community of people just sharing with each other.

Since that time I've become a lot more aware of the nuances involved in the wider BT "community", and on the internet in general, and aware that there's a lot of people out there who are only really capable of thinking about themselves, who would far rather tear something down than become involved in it constructively. Those people also tend to shout the loudest, making their numbers perhaps seem much greater than they actually are, and their influence perhaps makes it much harder for those new to the "community" to establish what acceptable modes of behaviour are, and what point there is in sticking to those anyway. Which in turn makes it harder for those established people to discern between someone who simply doesn't know, and someone who does and is choosing to pay no attention regardless. Its a vicious cycle really, to which I unfortunately doubt there is any tangible or achievable solution.

[sear]

Those people also tend to shout the loudest, making their numbers perhaps seem much greater than they actually are, and their influence perhaps makes it much harder for those new to the "community" to establish what acceptable modes of behaviour are, and what point there is in sticking to those anyway. Which in turn makes it harder for those established people to discern between someone who simply doesn't know, and someone who does and is choosing to pay no attention regardless. Its a vicious cycle really, to which I unfortunately doubt there is any tangible or achievable solution.

I like this. It made me think a bit which is nice

They do shout the loudest and most of my time ends up being spent dealing with people like this which I have to say makes me a little jaded. In the end though there's two reasons I do what I do with BT, the silent majority that you mentioned...and the good active members. At least for me the real diehards that love their site make it all worthwhile. They're what keeps me going instead of saying fuck it and downloading from FTP or another source.

I think the main problem with the private BT community is that it's been overrun by the types that you mentioned that love to complain the loudest and make a big sting whether that's complaining or vilifying someone. This can make the 'politics' of the whole scene rather ugly at times. Then there's also the collectors who just join up to be part of 'the site' whatever site that maybe I think they piss me off the most but if I start rambling about that I'll be here all afternoon and I want to go watch the new house

I'd also be interested to hear what people have to say about the 'big' egos of the BT world if anyone has something to say. By this I don't meant he big ego of your everyday 1337 user with all the private sites (yes that sounds lame but hopefully you'll know what I mean) but the actual players of BT. Does this lessen your enjoyment of trackers or do most people not even take it in? I guess maybe it's the position I'm in but I see a lot of this so I'm wondering does the average BT community member even think about these guys?

[Intr4ns1t]

They do shout the loudest and most of my time ends up being spent dealing with people like this which I have to say makes me a little jaded. In the end though there's two reasons I do what I do with BT, the silent majority that you mentioned...and the good active members. At least for me the real diehards that love their site make it all worthwhile. They're what keeps me going instead of saying fuck it and downloading from FTP or another source.

I think the main problem with the private BT community is that it's been overrun by the types that you mentioned that love to complain the loudest and make a big sting whether that's complaining or vilifying someone. This can make the 'politics' of the whole scene rather ugly at times. Then there's also the collectors who just join up to be part of 'the site' whatever site that maybe I think they piss me off the most but if I start rambling about that I'll be here all afternoon and I want to go watch the new house

I'd also be interested to hear what people have to say about the 'big' egos of the BT world if anyone has something to say. By this I don't meant he big ego of your everyday 1337 user with all the private sites (yes that sounds lame but hopefully you'll know what I mean) but the actual players of BT. Does this lessen your enjoyment of trackers or do most people not even take it in? I guess maybe it's the position I'm in but I see a lot of this so I'm wondering does the average BT community member even think about these guys?

I won't lie, I was/am absolutely fascinated by the sociology of it all. Probably should have put it in my reasons I use BT to the degree I do in fact.

It's intriguing to watch how the words of someone with that cumulative respect I keep referring to can have a profound impact on the greater world of BT. Just the idea you are talking about is funny in it's own right, in that those of us who are entrenched in the bigger community all know the names you are referring to even if we've never shared a word with them. Sometimes you can almost hear the hushed defference to those folks in peoples "voice" when they talk about those players.

Some interesting points in there (and in the rest of your post but I'll stick to that bit for now). I think you're mostly right about the mob rule thing, that the problem is indeed getting worse and that it is indeed hard to see any resolution to it. I do think though that its easy to forget, when active on forums like this one or the countless other invite/BT related sites that no doubt exist, or as someone involved in running or staffing a tracker, that a lot of members on sites don't necessarily participate in, or even have a great awareness of, a lot of the issues surrounding BT.

And yet, they are still held to those standards despite that fact. That's why I see it as such a big issue in this current era of BT history. Now, granted, there can't really even be a universal and well defined set of guidelines, because of the fact that the community is spread out over many sites that are each run under a different set of internal guidelines, with a mind for the overall good of the society. But, at some point, most people that stick with private trackers do learn at least the bare essentials. The rest, well they either move on, or they are forced on.

Doesn't really seem fair, but as is the mantra when faced with the immutable voice of staff saying "you fucked up, gtfo", Their tracker, their rules. There are no democracies in private sites, be they BT or anything else on the web.

[DeadCell]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Get your facts straight before you post retarded comments you know nothing about.

Intr4ns1t, epic thread.

[n00bz0r]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

duh.. retards like ya make FST 'out Fucking STanding'..
refrain from posting if ya have no idea what you are on about..

Tranny.. I have got to agree wid DeadCell..this is one EPIC thread.. imma post me answers asap!