Your Ad Here Your Ad Here
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Thread: Should "culture" End At The Border?

  1. #1
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Cairns, Queensland.
    Posts
    2,005
    This is a report from England. A young girl was murdered for breaking the "rules" of her father's culture.

    Muslim dad slits girl’s throat for being too Western


    MUSLIM asylum seeker Abdulla Yones grew increasingly angry as his pretty daughter Heshu became more Western-ised.

    For months Heshu, 16, who had started a sexual relationship with her Christian boyfriend, endured beatings at her father’s hands.

    Then, one day, the “bright, vibrant” girl paid the highest price. In a frenzied knife attack in the bathroom of their west London home, her father stabbed her 18 times before cutting her throat.

    Yones, 48, a Kurdish refugee from Iraq, was on Monday jailed for life for the so-called “honour” murder.

    At the Old Bailey, Judge Neil Denison said: “It’s plain that you strongly and genuinely disapproved of the lifestyle in this country of your daughter and the fact that that was affecting her school work. But having said that, the killing and manner of it was, as you recognised from the moment you did it, an appalling act.”

    On that fateful day last October, furious Yones smashed down the bathroom door after Heshu barricaded herself inside.

    The girl was found with a kitchen knife still in her neck, bent out of shape. She had been stabbed in her back, shoulders and breasts. There were cuts to her hands and arms as she tried to defend herself. One stab wound to her back was so severe that the tip of the knife broke off after cutting into bone. Tension had been building after Yones, of Acton, was called to the William Morris Academy in Fulham to discuss why his daughter had been missing school.

    Three days before the killing he received an unsigned letter sent to the headquarters of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Vauxhall, south London, claiming that Heshu was behaving like a prostitute and sleeping with her boyfriend, an 18-year-old Lebanese student, on a daily basis. Sexual relationships before marriage are forbidden under Muslim law.

    After killing his daughter, while her mother and two brothers were out, Yones tried to slit his own throat then jumped off a balcony in an attempt to kill himself. when he survived, he told police that an Al Qaeda suspect had broken into the flat and murdered Heshu and attacked him.

    But the Kurd, who fled Saddam Hussein’s regime 10 years ago, finally pleaded guilty to the murder of his daughter and repeatedly begged the judge to give him the death sentence.


    Source

    My question is this; Should immigrants to a country be expected to adopt that country's culture?

    There are many other practices taking place in countries like Britain, female circumsism for one, that are barbaric, and should be stopped. But what if they clash with the culture of the country of origin? Should they be allowed to continue in their adoptive homeland?

    Another point this raises is, what IS a country's culture? How would you define the "culture" of your country?

    This thread is not an invite to attack anyone, if that's your intention, piss off somewhere else and do it.

    Let's see if we can get opinions on this, not a flame war.





  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    Poster
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,959
    Good question BD. Although what I'm about to type is nowhere near as extreme as your example, I do believe that immigrants should at the very least learn the language of the culture in which they're about to immerse themselves. I live on the west cost of Canada and we have a very high concentration of Asian and East Indian immigrants. I have a particular gripe with the ones that operate businesses in my home and native land and make no effort to even learn one of our two official languages because they cater mostly to people of their own ethnic origins. There is a certain level of frustration involved when it comes to walking down to the corner store in my own neighborhood and not being able to communicate with the shopkeeper because of a language barrier.
    I expect that to be the case when I travel abroad and therefore make a concerted effort to learn the local language and customs so as not to risk offending anyone.
    It's unfortunate that our government has such an open door policy re; immigration, as it represents $$$$$$ they can collect through taxes, etc. We must ask ourselves if we were to move to India or Pakistan or China, how would we fare by not bothering to learn their language or abide by their customs ?

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,254
    It would be terrific if cultural immersion (from the standpoint of immigration) were the norm, as I've pointed out in other threads.

    I prefer that term (and I suspect others would, also) to such as "assimilation", which seems to suggest Nazism to some.

    Billy's example, while extreme, is a proper starting point for this thread, as it does away with the trivial, which so often serves as wasteful prelude to a serious discussion.

    I believe it, and also such examples as the Florida woman who converted to Islam and refused to be photographed for her driver's license without her veil, are ideally suited for a debate as to the problems of feasability and logistics which arise from immigration.

    Good topic, Billy.

    Oh, to answer your question, YES!


    Edit: added "answer"
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Cairns, Queensland.
    Posts
    2,005
    One of the points I meant to raise, but forgot, was the term "multi-cultural", an expression Australia likes to use. This should not be confused with "multi-racial", although it often is. Australia, for example, is muti-racial, and a good thing too. It's the expression "multi-cultural" that causes problems.



  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    15,388
    Billy, your example begs the question-If the father was so appalled by the Western cultural influences, why the hell did he choose to go to a Western country?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    Poster
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,477
    No we should not adopt a countries culture, but we should abide by the countries law's, I aint gonna change the way I speak just because some native doesnt feel comfy, I aint going to change my ways and I am not going to change any of my religious practices just because some people dont understand it. every one decides how they lives, what path they want and in what way they will live there life, and I for one aint gonna let any country dictate to me how I should act or speak or pray


    Honour killings dont exist in any of the major three religions, neither does it exist in any culture, If that freak kurd commited that crime in the middle east, or even kurdistan, he would have been punished (most likely death penalty).

    Besides different cultures offer many great things... such as the carnival in london....

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    I was thinking the same thing as clocker just pointed out, admittedly the person was a refugee, but if your trying to escape persecution then fleeing to a country where your cultural values will not be accepted and you don't accept their cultural values, seems odd. Personally I don't really have a problem with immigrants / refugees keeping their cultures as long as it doesn't conflict with the nation's laws. Its no business of mine whether someone wears cultural dress etc, it makes life a little bit more interesting and often ends up adding variety to the native culture. I draw the line at language, i think not being able to speak the native language immediately segregates people and there is no integration with the rest of the country. Its a tough problem because immigrants tend to need support and friends when they first arrive and its natural that fellow countrymen will be more open and accepting. however, this leads to cliques and often these things tend to snowball so you get sizeable areas with people who in their daily lives don't have to speak the native language and so never learn it and aren't ever assimilated into the country they moved to. These kinds of things tend to create tension in communities who feel they are overrun or that their country is being taken over.

    Edit just saw nonames post and
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3097728.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3094736.stm
    Links to honour killings in Jordan and the light prison sentences that are served

    Edited second time: Just saw this one http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2954060.stm a 1 year jail sentence for strangling his sister to death

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    Poster
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,477
    Just saw ILW's, yeah Jordan is a messed up place but it still aint the culture, just the odd Wahabite in the system who thinks that its right to do it... again its down to a freak not culture

    ilw, if you go to the mid east, you will see that the general populas(spelling?) disagrees with this, but thanks to the freaks in power they get to dictate what goes on... not the actual culture

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    Yes Jordan does seem to give out the lightest sentences i've seen but i think you seriously underestimate the number. eg around 400 women are killed in Pakistan every year by members of their own family in so called honour killings.

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,254
    Originally posted by Billy_Dean@8 October 2003 - 09:56
    One of the points I meant to raise, but forgot, was the term "multi-cultural", an expression Australia likes to use.  This should not be confused with "multi-racial", although it often is.  Australia, for example, is muti-racial, and a good thing too.  It's the expression "multi-cultural" that causes problems.


    I agree, multi-culturalism is the sticking point.

    Here in the U.S., whereas during the (for lack of a better term) "golden age" of immigration, and continuing through the sixties, I'd say, we had a system which fomented and presumed aculturation; these days, we have a system of accomodation, which is effectively giving racism a new framework upon which to flourish.

    The incident raised by Billy and questioned by the others, is, I think, a result of this mis-guided and mis-begotten trend of cross/multi-cultural acceptance.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •