Are you mad at the Snitch??

[Benjamin]

megabyteme, you are very lucky to have people like kallieb to spell it out word for word for you to understand.

[megabyteme]

No one ever addressed these points I brought up a few pages ago...

So what people who are "thinking about reality" (from posts above) are really saying...

"I'll be your friend- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be honest- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be trustworthy- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be brave- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll think of others- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be responsible for my own actions- as long as there is no real cost to me."

I'm sure there are more, but it is a good start.

What are we if everything is situational? Friendship, trust, honesty, etc. all become relative. Are there no standards of decency? Doesn't anyone feel these things are worth facing hardship for?

[pone44]

Kallie broke it down. well said. That would put you in a situation where you would be labeled a snitch. What I posted about a car,having stolen property. If it was some idiot that you just met and you were a mechanic. Would you take the years for a person you do not know so your name does not ring out snitch on the streets? You would have to give a name making you a snitch by your dictionary.

Hi kallie,

As usual, you bring good arguments to the table. I believe you were writing while I posted the definition of "snitch" above. Your scenario involves clearing your name from something that you did not have involvement in. That is not snitching.

Snitching involves escaping punishment for something that one did, by giving up information on others involved. Law enforcement takes that additional info and turns it into a more solid case against your partners in the crime.

There is nothing wrong with clearing your name. That is expected and good.

Knowingly committing a crime and screwing over your partners in that crime is cowardly and violates trusted relationships. Those are not acceptable actions.

[megabyteme]

There would be no relationship with the guy who brought the car in. We were not in the crime together. I would not be violating anyone's trust, because I had no part in the theft.

Snitching in this case would be:

The guy and I decided to start a chop shop together. He steals the cars and I make them sellable as parts.

The cops come in and arrest me. They offer me reduced charges if I agree to tell them who is stealing the cars.

I tell them (when they had no evidence)who he is and they convict my accomplice on several long-term charges. I get off light for doing so.

[cinephilia]

cinephilia is the snitch!

if it was me, you'd be in jail at the present time

[megabyteme]

I will also add that I am very particular who I give my word to. I treat friendship (among other things) as something of value. I am cautious as to whom I make deals with.

When someone has my word, my friendship, and my agreement, they will receive those very things. And that includes my protection. I expect the same in return. If I cannot believe they hold these same things as sacred, then I keep my relationship with them very limited. I have a few friends who have lived up to this. Nothing that can be "situationalized" will change my relationship with these people.

[Intr4ns1t]

No one ever addressed these points I brought up a few pages ago...

So what people who are "thinking about reality" (from posts above) are really saying...

"I'll be your friend- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be honest- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be trustworthy- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be brave- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll think of others- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be responsible for my own actions- as long as there is no real cost to me."

I'm sure there are more, but it is a good start.

What are we if everything is situational? Friendship, trust, honesty, etc. all become relative. Are there no standards of decency? Doesn't anyone feel these things are worth facing hardship for?

They are all situational though. That's the point that kallieb was trying to get across. And Benjamin as well, even if in a less than productive manner at points. We all have a certain line we will not cross, and some of us are more hardline than others, but that doesn't make the idea less viable.

It's not always a matter of "no cost", but more usually a matter of "what cost?". And sadly, there isn't a common standard for decency that extends to all of humanity. That is one of the things that makes us human. We all choose where we stand on morality and ethics on our own and once we have picked that place to stand, it's very hard to sway someone from that spot.

[megabyteme]

We all choose where we stand on morality and ethics on our own and once we have picked that place to stand, it's very hard to sway someone from that spot.

If I believed that the decisions were difficult for people I would not have such a strong reaction to the posts.

I think that the current generation of kids are starting to believe in everything being justifiable and relative. The decisions that should be hard become instinctual, base, and easy. There is also no perception of other, or price to pay for such life-changing decisions.

I drew the hard line because no one else was standing up for character, true friendship, and the other things in my (re)posted list.

My purposes in this thread have been to shine some light on respecting things other than "saving one's own ass" and justification. Also, to beat on the one willing to represent itself as justified in turning on someone.

Benny became my example of how strongly some of us would respond to being "sold out" by someone of his easy morals. In fact, some of us would never let such a violation go unpunished. Ever.

So I thank you, Intr4ns1t, for being someone who has paid that price for honor and friendship, and for bringing some real balance to this thread.

Now that all sides have been expressed...[/preaching]

[Benjamin]

If I believed that the decisions were difficult for people I would not have such a strong reaction to the posts.

I think that the current generation of kids are starting to believe in everything being justifiable and relative. The decisions that should be hard become instinctual, base, and easy. There is also no perception of other, or price to pay for such life-changing decisions.

I drew the hard line because no one else was standing up for character, true friendship, and the other things in my (re)posted list.

My purposes in this thread have been to shine some light on respecting things other than "saving one's own ass" and justification. Also, to beat on the one willing to represent itself as justified in turning on someone.

Benny became my example of how strongly some of us would respond to being "sold out" by someone of his easy morals. In fact, some of us would never let such a violation go unpunished. Ever.

So I thank you, Intr4ns1t, for being someone who has paid that price for honor and friendship, and for bringing some real balance to this thread.

Now that all sides have been expressed...[/preaching]

To be honest, you are just straight up dumb man. You're one of those people who come off as intelligent and you might fool some people, but not everyone.

[kallieb]

Sorry. I just have to add to it, because it isn't done. Never, ever underestimate the power of self-survival. Before we developed a 'cultured society' we operated at a far deeper level of existence, animalistic if you will - and those instincts are not out of us yet however civilized we may believe ourselves to be. Consider the examination of this in literature: Lord of the Flies, is one that comes to mind. This is not an abstract concept. This is human nature in action. We are animals, never forget it. Consider Mazlow's hierarchy of needs. Self-actualization is possible only when the foundations beneath are met. If our sense of survival is threatened, we will act accordingly. You think during times of duress, that it is that easy to stand firm? POW's were often placed in situations of compromise, and there were times they gave up their comrades, in order to live one more day. People who are lost, stranded, left to survive - sometimes had to resort to cannibalism. Did they think at the time, they would of done such an egregious thing? Likely not, but they did anyway. The only ones who judge and condemn the difficult choices made by men and women in these circumstances are those who never had to face such a difficult choice themselves. I now rephrase my postulations. Let us say, yes - you are culpable to the max. You are in it as high to your neck as your co-conspirators. Your choices at that moment is not just about you and your friend. Nor is it about you and a value system. It is about you.. and survival. You and jail. One can say, I'd never bail on my friend. Are you ready to bail on your wife? What if it is a choice between your wife, and your friend. What if it is a choice between your friend, and your fear of jail: A grinding fear of what might happen to you in there. A fear of confinement, a fear of losing your children. Animalistic. We are animals. We will act to self-survive. I strive to live a decent life. I hope never to be placed in such a difficult moral dilemma, but I have the foresight to know that I cant predict - absolutely - how I can be when all the variables that will shape my decision are not yet known. phew...