Are you mad at the Snitch??

[megabyteme]

Apparently, you don't have a problem with gleefully roasting marshmallows, over the smoldering remains of a hypothetical snitch, but your personal code of ethics - won't allow you to put the snitch out of his misery with a kindly piss?


How rude.


-doobs

Good to see ya up here, doobie!

[kooltilldend]

darn your posts are hard to read with the lack of paragraphs but good god you write well!!...so as it is, I just have to respond since I loved reading this (sorry for the late response though as I didn't have a net connection for last 2-3 days)...anyways so here goes (i'll try breaking your response into separate quotes)

Sorry. I just have to add to it, because it isn't done. Never, ever underestimate the power of self-survival. Before we developed a 'cultured society' we operated at a far deeper level of existence, animalistic if you will - and those instincts are not out of us yet however civilized we may believe ourselves to be.

I agree with this part...humans have always been selfish and have always done things (in the past) that have benefited them more than others (survival tactics really)...however, with the existence of civilizations now...one is expected (and hoped) to act in a much more friendly nature...its not about "me" anymore...its about "us"...so in that sense, being selfish or acting purely on instincts is no longer a fair call (all other aspects assumed to be constant)

Consider the examination of this in literature: Lord of the Flies, is one that comes to mind. This is not an abstract concept. This is human nature in action. We are animals, never forget it. Consider Mazlow's hierarchy of needs. Self-actualization is possible only when the foundations beneath are met. If our sense of survival is threatened, we will act accordingly.

Again those circumstances are no longer valid as that is not what we are taught or expected to act as...heck, even animals help out their comrades at times - and we are supposed to act in a whole lot more mature manner than them...again its all philosophical but its not a whole lot more unrealistic than what Maslow seems to claim (or LOTF seems to suggest - just look at Piggy and his actions!)

You think during times of duress, that it is that easy to stand firm? POW's were often placed in situations of compromise, and there were times they gave up their comrades, in order to live one more day. People who are lost, stranded, left to survive - sometimes had to resort to cannibalism. Did they think at the time, they would of done such an egregious thing? Likely not, but they did anyway. The only ones who judge and condemn the difficult choices made by men and women in these circumstances are those who never had to face such a difficult choice themselves.

Well, I've never faced these situations so me judging them would be heavily unfair...that said, if a person resorts to cannibalism against say, their best friend or their own family...then I don't even need to judge them - they've shown their character already (and how much they cared for these supposedly-special people)...

Mind you, just like cannibalism exists, at the other end of the spectrum, we also have cases where people willingly sacrifice themselves just to protect others (and both sides are very realistic imo)..its all about a person's character and self-control (among other things)

I now rephrase my postulations. Let us say, yes - you are culpable to the max. You are in it as high to your neck as your co-conspirators. Your choices at that moment is not just about you and your friend. Nor is it about you and a value system. It is about you.. and survival. You and jail. One can say, I'd never bail on my friend. Are you ready to bail on your wife? What if it is a choice between your wife, and your friend. What if it is a choice between your friend, and your fear of jail: A grinding fear of what might happen to you in there. A fear of confinement, a fear of losing your children. Animalistic. We are animals. We will act to self-survive. I strive to live a decent life. I hope never to be placed in such a difficult moral dilemma, but I have the foresight to know that I cant predict - absolutely - how I can be when all the variables that will shape my decision are not yet known. phew...

Believe me, even if I was in a case similar to the above...I would still not snitch on anyone...if it is indeed my fault, then I will happily (ok maybe not happily) take all the blame for my actions regardless of the circumstances

In all truth, anyone who says they would prioritize their family (or in other words, themselves) over others are no different than the real-life criminals...always remember, in such instances, everyone loses something...just because you get off lightly and have a family to go back to...there's also someone else who pays the price and loses out on their family (or what not)

If I was indeed guilty and made someone else pay the price...I'd honestly regret my actions all my life and would probably end up dying in shame

In closing, I'd like to use a very commonly used quote which I think fits here very well

"Do unto others what you want to be done onto"

In short, do not snitch on others if you don't want others to do the same...trust is everything, you lose it once and it will never come back - hence the domino effect (you cheat on me, I cheat on someone else and so on...its a never-ending saga until someone takes a firm stance and accepts their mistakes fully)

Its just my opinion ofcourse but I hope I got my message across decently

Cheers!

p.s. I also want to make one thing clear which I didn't mention yet (forgot about it)...when I say I'll take the blame, I'm obviously only saying this when it is indeed "my fault"...I will never take any responsibility for anybody else's actions (and don't expect them to do the same - although I know some people who'd disagree here)...I may take responsibility for my family's actions but even then, I expect them to realize their mistake before I admit to their faults

In short, I'm not "foolish" enough to take other people's blame...yet am not "clever" enough to blame others for my mistakes either

[Benjamin]

In all truth, anyone who says they would prioritize their family (or in other words, themselves) over others are no different than the real-life criminals..

Just look at the most successful people anywhere. All of them have friends and family that they care about, but they also have a 'fuck everybody else' mentality. You think any of them sits around and wastes their life discussing philosophy? Selfishness is the driving force of life and if you hate on people for it you probably don't like yourself that much and envy people who do.

[kooltilldend]

In all truth, anyone who says they would prioritize their family (or in other words, themselves) over others are no different than the real-life criminals..

Just look at the most successful people anywhere. All of them have friends and family that they care about, but they also have a 'fuck everybody else' mentality. You think any of them sits around and wastes their life discussing philosophy? Selfishness is the driving force of life and if you hate on people for it you probably don't like yourself that much and envy people who do.

wow that's a bit rude if I'd say so (and not to me, rather to these celebs)...you can't just "fuck everybody else" and have a successful career...ever heard of the term networking? yeah its supposed to mean the opposite...Bill Gates would be nowhere if Steve Ballmer wasn't running MS today (and rest assure they weren't "friends" when Gates started the company or when Ballmer joined - whichever position he started out as)...Tom Cruise would be nowhere if hadn't met the likes of Steven Spielberg, etc (and vice versa)...even today, Bill Gates can't just say "fuck Ballmer" and expect to remain at the top of the league...it takes a joint effort to succeed...and one person can ruin it all (I don't know the exact quote but it goes something like one dirty fish can make the whole lake stink)

Also these celebs have a "vision" which gets them where they are today...they don't "stab" (or in other terms, snitch) others to get where they are...yes, running a business can be cut-throat (due to the competition) but even then, everyone knows they are in it together...Microsoft maybe eternal rivals against Apple but even Microsoft knows they only exist due to them (Jobs/MS 1980's - you probably know what I mean)

p.s. I'd just like to mention there's a difference between grabbing an opportunity and "abusing" authority to destroy someone else's existence...and if people still don't feel any remorse when they do the latter...well then there's not a whole lot of difference between them and a cold-blooded murderer or serial killer who doesn't give a "rat's" (pun very much intended) ass about others

hope that makes sense

edit: i forgot to mention another thing...if you think discussing life's "philosophy" is a waste of time then you are either just downright naive or ignorant...life isn't lived by what you possess (i.e. materialistic crap) or by who you know (that's career - not life)...life is analyzed by what you do...by who you are (i.e. abstract - or in other words, philosophical aspects)

Mahatma Gandhi would be nobody today if it wasn't for his "philosophies"...Martin Luther King would be non-existent, etc etc...you could perhaps suggest all of these people are "stupid" that they cared more about "others" than about themselves (and not all the people they saved/helped were their "friends" since it was one of Gandhi's followers that killed him for e.g.)...but at the end of the day, everyone knows who Gandhi/King is...does anyone other than your "family and friends" know who you are? i'm afraid not

Honestly I can't stress this enough...if you "snitch" on others (in the most genuine terms) then you really do not appreciate "life" - call it philosophy or what have you...but that's what it is...in the simplest of terms

Its just an opinion though so take it with a pinch of salt if you must

[pone44]

Is that really true though? That these people did not step over others to get where they are? Plus these guys you mention would snitch in a heartbeat.

Just look at the most successful people anywhere. All of them have friends and family that they care about, but they also have a 'fuck everybody else' mentality. You think any of them sits around and wastes their life discussing philosophy? Selfishness is the driving force of life and if you hate on people for it you probably don't like yourself that much and envy people who do.

wow that's a bit rude if I'd say so (and not to me, rather to these celebs)...you can't just "fuck everybody else" and have a successful career...ever heard of the term networking? yeah its supposed to mean the opposite...Bill Gates would be nowhere if Steve Ballmer wasn't running MS today (and rest assure they weren't "friends" when Gates started the company or when Ballmer joined - whichever position he started out as)...Tom Cruise would be nowhere if hadn't met the likes of Steven Spielberg, etc (and vice versa)...even today, Bill Gates can't just say "fuck Ballmer" and expect to remain at the top of the league...it takes a joint effort to succeed...and one person can ruin it all (I don't know the exact quote but it goes something like one dirty fish can make the whole lake stink)

Also these celebs have a "vision" which gets them where they are today...they don't "stab" (or in other terms, snitch) others to get where they are...yes, running a business can be cut-throat (due to the competition) but even then, everyone knows they are in it together...Microsoft maybe eternal rivals against Apple but even Microsoft knows they only exist due to them (Jobs/MS 1980's - you probably know what I mean)

p.s. I'd just like to mention there's a difference between grabbing an opportunity and "abusing" authority to destroy someone else's existence...and if people still don't feel any remorse when they do the latter...well then there's not a whole lot of difference between them and a cold-blooded murderer or serial killer who doesn't give a "rat's" (pun very much intended) ass about others

hope that makes sense

[kooltilldend]

Is that really true though? That these people did not step over others to get where they are? Plus these guys you mention would snitch in a heartbeat.

wow that's a bit rude if I'd say so (and not to me, rather to these celebs)...you can't just "fuck everybody else" and have a successful career...ever heard of the term networking? yeah its supposed to mean the opposite...Bill Gates would be nowhere if Steve Ballmer wasn't running MS today (and rest assure they weren't "friends" when Gates started the company or when Ballmer joined - whichever position he started out as)...Tom Cruise would be nowhere if hadn't met the likes of Steven Spielberg, etc (and vice versa)...even today, Bill Gates can't just say "fuck Ballmer" and expect to remain at the top of the league...it takes a joint effort to succeed...and one person can ruin it all (I don't know the exact quote but it goes something like one dirty fish can make the whole lake stink)

Also these celebs have a "vision" which gets them where they are today...they don't "stab" (or in other terms, snitch) others to get where they are...yes, running a business can be cut-throat (due to the competition) but even then, everyone knows they are in it together...Microsoft maybe eternal rivals against Apple but even Microsoft knows they only exist due to them (Jobs/MS 1980's - you probably know what I mean)

p.s. I'd just like to mention there's a difference between grabbing an opportunity and "abusing" authority to destroy someone else's existence...and if people still don't feel any remorse when they do the latter...well then there's not a whole lot of difference between them and a cold-blooded murderer or serial killer who doesn't give a "rat's" (pun very much intended) ass about others

hope that makes sense

do you personally know any of these people that you can say that?

all I or you know is what we are "shown"...how true it is (or isn't), is open to discussion

besides there's a number of celebs who would indeed "snitch" on others (or so it seems anyways)...but then again, I, for one, don't want to be like them anyways

btw I would just like to add that I've totally enjoyed this discussion ever since I've popped in here (it seems like a much more sane discussion than earlier when it just seemed like mindless bashing from both sides)

if we could indeed continue this discussion in the current manner, I'd absolutely love to talk about this for a long long time

oh and for anyone who's probably thinking I'm a 50 year old who's overly preachy...well I'm just 22...I guess I just uphold myself to standards higher than expected (or so it seems anyways)...but I personally think it will just lead me to a better life and def. a more positive lifestyle...if it does indeed mean, I'll get cheated upon (hasn't happened so far but I can't predict the future so who knows) then so be it...I'll just take it as a cause of my actions and move on...I'm def. not changing "my beliefs" for some1 who doesn't agree with them though (and don't expect others to do any different either)

I guess I just enjoy talking about abstract concepts more than what seems to be mostly be the case around these parts

oh well...

[pone44]

Yeah, Bill gates is my uncle. Exactly what I was saying to you, do you know these people? It depends on the situation really,not pride or principles all the time. I don't agree with throwing someone under the bus at all. Can't be so close minded. Not speaking to you kooltilthe or at anyone specifically.
Celebs have more to lose. It is about leverage.

Is that really true though? That these people did not step over others to get where they are? Plus these guys you mention would snitch in a heartbeat.

do you personally know any of these people that you can say that?

all I or you know is what we are "shown"...how true it is (or isn't), is open to discussion

besides there's a number of celebs who would indeed "snitch" on others...but then again, I, for one, don't want to be like them anyways

Was being sarcastic.

[kooltilldend]

Yeah, Bill gates is my uncle. Exactly what I was saying to you, do you know these people? It depends on the situation really,not pride or principles all the time. I don't agree with throwing someone under the bus at all. Can't be so close minded. Not speaking to you kooltilthe or at anyone specifically.
Celebs have more to lose. It is about leverage.

do you personally know any of these people that you can say that?

all I or you know is what we are "shown"...how true it is (or isn't), is open to discussion

besides there's a number of celebs who would indeed "snitch" on others...but then again, I, for one, don't want to be like them anyways

Was being sarcastic.

lol sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm (yeah I'm slow )

I'm glad you see my point though and I agree that everything is open to discussion (hence why I am loving this thread)...that said, a person shouldn't "compare" their morals with that of someone else (not even someone who's known for them like Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, Dalai Lama, etc)

its my firm belief that if you keep "judging" your actions to others...you'll never reach the heights you could otherwise achieve...afterall, only unless you aim for the stars, can you reach the skies

or in other terms, you have to aim for the very top if you want to get even close...the lower you aim, even lower shall you achieve

p.s. I also agree that circumstances play a very significant role...there are times when one (or even me) may not be able to accept the punishment for their actions...in such scenarios, assuming the cause is genuine, I would at the very least be very grateful for whoever takes the blame for me and would most def. feel sorrow for my actions (and would perhaps atone by helping someone else - or even that person if I could)...either way, that's not "snitching" as I wouldn't be putting the blame on the other person...it would be a "mutual agreement" so to speak

[Benjamin]

@kooltilldend You sit on your computer and spam forums all day long. So excuse me if I don't take your opinion on this topic seriously. That's just how I feel, I have nothing against you.

[megabyteme]

@kooltilldend You sit on your computer and spam forums all day long. So excuse me if I don't take your opinion on this topic seriously. That's just how I feel, I have nothing against you.

Sorry kool, looks like you have caught yourself an anal wart. Good luck wiping him off your ass...