Atheists and christmas

[j2k4]

When atheism becomes an institutionalized belief system (that is what is described here, after all) it begins to mirror traditional religion, and that's a fact.

If you would like to try to reason your way out of that particular box, feel free.

Institutionalized belief system and that's a fact? Please show me how/where atheism mirrors traditional religion.

You are advocating atheism and it's propagation for your purposes just as traditional religion advocates for it's own, while declaiming your rejection of a "God" or "Gods".

If you believe in ath - excuse me, Atheism so fervently, you will soon be organizing, meeting and tithing, all in the name of the "cause" - just like, well, you know the rest.

[ugk4life]

Institutionalized belief system and that's a fact? Please show me how/where atheism mirrors traditional religion.

You are advocating atheism and it's propagation for your purposes just as traditional religion advocates for it's own, while declaiming your rejection of a "God" or "Gods".

If you believe in ath - excuse me, Atheism so fervently, you will soon be organizing, meeting and tithing, all in the name of the "cause" - just like, well, you know the rest.

1st, of all I am not advocating anything (if I am please show me where). If you read my other post you would have known that I am not even atheist. Anyhow I think you misunderstand atheism. How can you believe in atheism? Atheism is just a term used to describe people who do not believe in god (etymology a=no/not ; theism = god). So basically you are saying atheist believe in not believing in god(s), thus making them a religion. Nope, doesn't work that way. If it did, I guess I can make up the "religion" of twirling my finger in the air... That's it, just twirl your finger, that's my religion.

Sorry buddy, religion involves god(s) and/or spirituality

Monotheistic religious folks are r the real atheists, they don't believe in polytheistic (see roman, egyptian) gods!!! I kid, I kid

[j2k4]

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

[ugk4life]

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

[devilsadvocate]

Where is it written that Atheists have to have faith in science? Where is it written that one has to have religion to believe in God?

One could argue that one is having the God of oneself or oneself as god, but it isn't what I would describe as religion.

edit. to be fair an Atheist wouldn't consider himself as god

[j2k4]

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

Are you trying to say that, to the extent we generally regard science as trustworthy, we dare not sully it by trying to square it with the existence of a deity?

Doesn't sound too...inquiring to me, but to each his/her own.

Back to my point:

It looks/sounds to me as if Atheism seeks to organize itself, and to do so on a scale that would require all of the ingredients of religion (funding, fervor and expansionism) except God or What-Have-You.

I mean, they've got a Manifesto, and....no, wait - I'm describing Communism...

[ugk4life]

I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

Are you trying to say that, to the extent we generally regard science as trustworthy, we dare not sully it by trying to square it with the existence of a deity?

Doesn't sound too...inquiring to me, but to each his/her own.

Back to my point:

It looks/sounds to me as if Atheism seeks to organize itself, and to do so on a scale that would require all of the ingredients of religion (funding, fervor and expansionism) except God or What-Have-You.

I mean, they've got a Manifesto, and....no, wait - I'm describing Communism...

Saying "ingredients of religion, except or w/o God(s)" is like saying hamburger helper w/o the hamburger (which would be something else entirely, macaroni and cheese)... Atheism is just simply people who do not believe in a diety. Just b/c atheist seek out like-minded individuals does not make them religious. That's just human nature. I seek out other Dallas Cowboys fans, we collect money at our forum for get-togethers, and I try to "convert" my non-Cowboy friends to become Cowboy fans (haven't "converted one yet...lol), does that make the Cowboys a religion? The funding and expansionism you speak of is more to promote science b/c atheism is science/fact based NOT faith based. Atheist are what they are what they are, a group of people who don't believe in god(s). Regardless of what name "they gave themselves", one would have been given to them anyway and we would still be having this discussion.

[ugk4life]

Where is it written that Atheists have to have faith in science? Where is it written that one has to have religion to believe in God?

One could argue that one is having the God of oneself or oneself as god, but it isn't what I would describe as religion.

edit. to be fair an Atheist wouldn't consider himself as god

1st of all, "faith in science" is an oxymoron. Simply ask any atheist why don't they believe in god. Basically, there answer will be that there is no proof. The "proof" they speak of is fact based, observable, scientific proof.

And I don't care what dictionary you use as a source, web-based or not, somewhere in the definition of religion you will find "belief in God(s)" or "spirtuality"

[bigboab]

There is more than one definition to religion. You are just picking the definition that suits you, to the detriment of all the other definitions.

p.s. Look up the definition in a good dictionary, not the internet.

LOL, love how you didn't provide any source for these "other" definitions of religion. Atheist don't believe in God and religion involves worship of God(s). Atheist trust science. Science is NOT a belief system. It is observable fact.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

It doesn't get any better then merriam-webster. Or is there a better dictionary...lol. I can go all day, keep it comin'...BTW, I'm not atheist!

I got my definition from Websters Third. Where there are 7 definitions of religion.

Lets ignore that and go your way. Looking at your source(I said no internet) I picked out definition number four(Only four!);

4 :a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

No mention of a deity in that definition. Religion does not have the monopoly on the word faith.

[j2k4]

Thank you, Bob.

There you have it, Cowboy fan(s).