Just an unnerving thought

[Quarterquack]

Trading. I consistently read posts by other "respectable" members of any forum I'm at that they find it morally unacceptable to trade, and anyone who does so has no dignity, no integrity, no respect for tracker wishes, and several other colorful adjectives thrown out of an oration from hell.

Why is it so? Why can people not understand that we all live by certain different/conflicting sets of morals. If we were all subjected to the same code of morals/ethics, there would be no debates about war, euthanasia, stem cell research etc. Yet there is. The main point I'm driving is: We're all pirates who are too much of scum to go to a store to buy a 10$ DVD collection, and yet somehow in there, with a complete disregard for the accepted norm of adhering to rules, we wish to impose rules upon those who are beneath us, while failing to observe that they are simply trying to cheat the system we are plateaued at, just as we are trying to cheat a system higher than ourselves.

To put it simply: With what authority does one have the right to judge another's behavior, especially when it comes to piracy habits.

PS: Since I'm usually open about why I do things, it was a post by idoleyes. However, it was not the defining reason, more like a trigger that set off this thread after I had noticed others doing the same. So no, this thread is not directed at anyone, I'm just hoping for some insightful responses from which I can see the angle other people see trading from.

[hotshot6473]

I dunno in my eyes trading leads to the wrong people getting onto a site. Trading and selling usually lead to the downfall of a site cause its brings a lot of negative attention.

[IdolEyes787]

I don't blanket judge every trader to be a "bad" person, just as I don't blanket judge (obviously ) everyone who doesn't to be a "good" one.
In the specific case I think you are referring to though I believe there is a totally different set of values involved .That person is totally unconcerned about anything or anyone but himself. He trades for no reason but that it gives him a sense of power/accomplishment/fulfillment that he obviously ( being the ass-hole that he is)couldn't have otherwise and doesn't give a shit if anyone/anything is hurt in the process
Someone who doesn't factor in how their actions maybe adversely effecting others for no better reason than to be( in their own mind at least) a "big man" is well deserving of all the contempt I can give him.

[Quarterquack]

I dunno in my eyes trading leads to the wrong people getting onto a site. Trading and selling usually lead to the downfall of a site cause its brings a lot of negative attention.

Perfectly understandable. I don't condone trading, either. However, people seem to think it has something to do with morality, or that trading is outright wrong. My main gripe is the fact that while one might choose that trading is not a beneficial path for him/herself, another might have the moral rule-set that allows him to break the rules.

I don't understand why either party should try to impose their opinions on the other. That's the point of this thread.

I don't blanket judge every trader to be a "bad" person, just as I don't blanket judge (obviously ) everyone who doesn't to be a "good" one.
In the specific case I think you are referring to though I believe there is a totally different set of values involved .That person is totally unconcerned about anything or anyone but himself. He trades for no reason but that it gives him a sense of power/accomplishment/fulfillment that he obviously ( being the ass-hole that he is)couldn't have otherwise and doesn't give a shit if anyone/anything is hurt in the process
Someone who doesn't factor in how their actions maybe adversely effecting others for no better reason than to be( in their own mind at least) a "big man" is well deserving of all the contempt I can give him.

Thank you. That's the sort of explanation/reasoning I'm looking for, and yes, in that certain case, I agree with you that the person did not deserve a better treatment than the one received, however, it's not only you doing it. It would be foolish to point out your response as a stray. People do/say this sort of thing all the time. I see traders being harassed simply for the choices they make. Sure, they break the rules but I mean come on, why assume the moral high ground. This all goes back to, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone."

Someone trades because he has no use of a tracker anyway and inreturn he brings another user who may or maynot use the tracker.Trading is wrong because trackers has a rule implemented "No trading".If you feel like breaking the rule according to morals,feel free and get banned.Atleast you have proved your point,didnt ya?

You are joining a tracker willingly remember?No one forced you into joining a tracker and you signed up agreeing the terms and conditions.You can bitch and wine how much the rules sucks but if you violate the rules youll be kicked out.

I have never had gripes with the dictatorial system of running a tracker, and I know how/why it works considering I've staffed at a few places (nothing extraordinaire). I understand the security risks it produces, and the dangers of breaking that perfect balance of the benevolent ecosystem of utopian trackers. I'm yet to see a legitimate reason why people refer to traders as "The scum of the BT world" or "Without morals/integrity/dignity". To me, it's unheard of to impose one's own beliefs on another.

I've never heard of someone getting ridiculed because they don't upload content to a tracker (in the spirit of sharing), which is just as much of a security risk to be honest, just the same as I've never heard of anyone getting ridiculed because they don't seed for years as other people do (in the spirit of sharing). So why is it that when it comes to trading (STILL in the spirit of sharing) do people find the impending necessity to enforce their opinion of the matter unto others? Is it simply because you're brainwashed into trusting every power tripping tracker administrator out there?

[A]

Someone trades because he has no use of a tracker anyway and inreturn he brings another user who may or maynot use the tracker.Trading is wrong because trackers has a rule implemented "No trading".If you feel like breaking the rule according to morals,feel free and get banned.Atleast you have proved your point,didnt ya?

To put it simply: With what authority does one have the right to judge another's behavior, especially when it comes to piracy habits.

You are joining a tracker willingly remember?No one forced you into joining a tracker and you signed up agreeing the terms and conditions.You can bitch and wine how much the rules sucks but if you violate the rules youll be kicked out.

[kurdt]

it's honor among thieves, or pirates as it were. you agree to the tracker rules when you join. if you don't like them, don't join the tracker. if you break them, you are acting dishonorably.

[Quarterquack]

it's honor among thieves, or pirates as it were. you agree to the tracker rules when you join. if you don't like them, don't join the tracker. if you break them, you are acting dishonorably.

But why is HONOR used as a word here? Why is morality brought into the subject, while calling traders people with corrupt morals? Am I the only one that sees the irony in all of this? Surely someone else realizes this is all so very wrong.

I understand breaking rules. I abide to them as much as I can, sir! If I break a rule, then I deserve the consequences that I agreed to pay for, in advance to me breaking said rule. But does that actually mean I have no honor? No morality? No dignity/self-respect? My whole issue is why do people push such words/concepts in an environment that thrives against these very values.

EDIT: And if someone realizes that just because you break certain values expressed in our society (adhering to copy-right laws), does not mean you should not uphold morality/integrity in other cases, then why is that same capacity/understanding not applied when viewing trading?

[A]

I'm yet to see a legitimate reason why people refer to traders as "The scum of the BT world" or "Without morals/integrity/dignity". To me, it's unheard of to impose one's own beliefs on another.

New people who join BT and want to get into trackers are made into believing or will follow what the tracker staff has to say.Once they grow out of this phase they too view Traders as just traders and not people Without morals/integrity/dignity.Only New people,ass kissers,retards who cant think for themsleves and Staff,and only according to these "genre",are traders whatever they say.For me atleast Traders get what they deserve,ban from trackers.Nothing more,nothing less.

[Tokeman]

Trying to hold a bunch of people breaking the law to a set of rules is laughable at best. Just my opinion though...

And traders do not bring sites down, these types of sites (torrent sites) are a problem waiting to happen without the help of traders/sellers, its just a matter of time.

Edit: I should probably mention I don't encourage rule breaking or trading. I just find it funny, gathering a bunch of law breaking people together then getting upset when rules are broken.

[P2PDog]

I don't see traders as being inherently morally deficient (although most of them are), my main reason for disliking it is because it's selfish. When a tracker gives you invites it's with the intention that you're going to invite someone that will be a good addition. Traders try to maximize the "value" of their invites by trading them with whoever will offer them the most in return with no regard for whether that person will be an asset or a liability to the tracker.

IMO, BT is supposed to be about sharing. Trying to maximize the value of something that was given to you for free with no regard for the effect is has on the tracker is just plain selfish. Since trading does attract those who are selfish, who have no regard for others, I do find them morally repugnant, and since it's the vast majority who are like that I do tend to stereotype them.