Innocence

[Billy_Dean]

Thomas Hobbes
English Philosopher
1588-1679

Hobbes developed a materialist and highly pessimistic philosophy that was denounced in his own day and later, but has had a continuing influence on Western political thought. His Leviathan (1651) presents a bleak picture of human beings in the state of nature, where life is "nasty, brutish, and short." Fear of violent death is the principal motive that causes people to create a state by contracting to surrender their natural rights and to submit to the absolute authority of a sovereign. Although the power of the sovereign derived originally from the people, Hobbes said-challenging the doctrine of the divine right of kings-the sovereign's power is absolute and not subject to review by either subjects or ecclesiastical powers. Hobbes's concept of the social contract led to investigations by other political theorists, notably Locke, Spinoza, and Rousseau, who formulated their own radically different theories of the social contract.

You think maybe they are related JP?

[J'Pol]

Can there be any doubt Billy.

[bigboab]

Why try and influence? Whatever he wants to do, it will be Hobbe's own choice.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by SensualGardening@24 October 2003 - 11:52
Hobbes:
Oh, poor Hobbes, your craving will be heard some day........
I think that injury is allready there........

You talk in general.....
When the issue is you........
http://www.newselfimage.com/indexnew.shtml
(though i think you're fooling us all and you are sooo happy, you only can handle it by posting the sh*** you do..... )

True love is all around you.
To really get a grasp of that you'll have to start out with loving yourself.....

I used to blame the whole world of deception
I've seen that road
Paved with selfpity and remorse
but, hey, you can abandon that
come off that high-horse filled with pain
and try a little slice of happiness
really, there's enough for everyone
and if you really try
it will sustain
Yogi Mashnipranti

Sensual,


You addressed me, not the issue. Your comments were simple condescension (in red), inferring that I am some boob looking for sympathetic attention.
You then tell me that the issue (problem) is me, and direct me to some self help nonsense. Anybody truely interested in helping another would respond in a more congenial way.


"Loving oneself" is a seminar slogan, a mantra for the paying sheep. It has no lustre or originality. Oh, I do accept my strengths and limitations and feel comfortable about myself, if that's what you meant.


Was the poem not something you offered for me to glean insight from? It begins, "I used to blame the world". Well, as I said, I blame no one for my life condition or my views.
Self pity and remorse? I am not disappointed with myself or regret what I have done or not done, I have just found out that those adult things which I looked forward too were not as fulfilling as the hype.


I could barely sleep the night before Christmas, I broke out in hives the night before my first solo plane flight, I want to know what equivalents exist in the adult world. It is not me lamenting my life, but me looking for the magic the world once held.

High horse filled with pain? Ok, just to be clear, I am not Rush Limbaugh (a playgroundesque cheap shot, eh J2?)


As for the box, you did. I made certain statements, you made assumptions that I must be a person filled with the above, you were wrong. The box you wanted to put me in did not fit.

Perhaps you could have asked if I were upset about something? Why did I post such a downer? This way you could gauge me by my response (apolgetic, clarifying or maudlin sorrow) and could make a more informed post, rather than to respond emotionally.It all depends upon whether you want to be constructive or destructive, and of course, your prevailing mood at the time.

I am not angry, bitter, resentful or depressed. I just find life boring sometimes, and wish that there were still things ahead of me that I lived in fevered anticipation of.

In my childhood days, the year was measured against two points: Christmas holiday and summer break. Everything lead up to these pinnacles. On the last day of school, I would literally run home with my arms waving in hysterical delight. I really wish I still had points equivalent to these in adulthood.

As for "true love" (not love of family and such), with the valiant knight and the beautiful princess who lived happily ever after. I have found that the "twitterpation" part is easy, it is the "happily ever after" part that can get be a bit of a letdown.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by JPaul@24 October 2003 - 18:40
Hobbes

Do you have a sense that your life and the life of everyone else is ultimately futile.

No love, no magic, just a finite existance then nothing.

You are born, you do stuff, you own things, you die.

The end.

That would depress the arse off of me as well.

Not at all. I do shirk off convention as I find it is stiff and scratchy, but I certainly have no "gloom and doom" futilistic attitude. If I did you all would have become bored with my shite long ago.

[bigboab]

Do you mean twitteration hobbes? We all have had those. As I said before it will all pan out.

Edit. I checked three dictionaries for that bloody word.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by bigboab@25 October 2003 - 01:00
Do you mean twitteration hobbes? We all have had those. As I said before it will all pan out.

Edit. I checked three dictionaries for that bloody word.

Sorry, that was from the Disney record, Bambi, I had as a child. I logged the word, but never have looked it up.

It describes the stars in the eyes, mouth agape, head over heels feeling we get when someone strikes that chord in us. It should be made a real word, as I think it is a bit more effective than "infatuation".

[bigboab]

Thanks. Twitteration would cover it. B)

[Yogi]

Hobbes,

You addressed me, not the issue. Your comments were simple condescension (in red), inferring that I am some boob looking for sympathetic attention.

When someone posts as you did in this case, and you post it in the lounge, it may seem that way......

You then tell me that the issue (problem) is me, and direct me to some self help nonsense. Anybody truely interested in helping another would respond in a more congenial way.

If you want true interest, you shouldn't have posted it here.......(imho)
If you can't see the irony in what i wrote, it only confirms what i stated.......

"Loving oneself" is a seminar slogan, a mantra for the paying sheep. It has no lustre or originality. Oh, I do accept my strengths and limitations and feel comfortable about myself, if that's what you meant.

Do you really...??
And if it applied on you, you wouldn't have posted a piece like yours.....

And i would NEVER advise anybody to love oneself, i just state that's what you will need to get over your obvious disappointments.
If i would skip the platitudes and paying sheep-mantra's(irony???), i would have to charge you...........

Was the poem not something you offered for me to glean insight from? It begins, "I used to blame the world". Well, as I said, I blame no one for my life condition or my views.
Self pity and remorse? I am not disappointed with myself or regret what I have done or not done, I have just found out that those adult things which I looked forward too were not as fulfilling as the hype.

Actually, the poem stated "I used to, etc." Wouldn't that refer to me??
As in: i know all about disappointment..........
You seem to find it really hard to overcome your defense.......
If i seem to write in another language than you, sorry for that........

I could barely sleep the night before Christmas, I broke out in hives the night before my first solo plane flight, I want to know what equivalents exist in the adult world. It is not me lamenting my life, but me looking for the magic the world once held.

THe magic's still there. You just lost touch.....
I'm 44 and still regularly get the nice shivers of upcoming (or past....) events.

High horse filled with pain? Ok, just to be clear, I am not Rush Limbaugh (a playgroundesque cheap shot, eh J2?)

Ohhh, men, it just some poetic playing.......
And isn't the lounge the playground of this forum......???

As for the box, you did. I made certain statements, you made assumptions that I must be a person filled with the above, you were wrong. The box you wanted to put me in did not fit.

You are the one holding those boxes, friend.
As i stated; i hate boxes......

Perhaps you could have asked if I were upset about something? Why did I post such a downer? This way you could guage me by my response (apolgetic, clarifying or maudlin sorrow) and could make a more informed post, rather than to respond emotionally.It all depends upon whether you want to be constructive or destructive, and of course, your prevailing mood at the time.

My mood was one of ironic mirroring.
If you want more, it'll cost.....

I am not angry, bitter, resentful or depressed. I just find life boring sometimes, and wish that there were still things ahead of me that I lived in fevered anticipation of.

I don't wanna fall back to those platitudes and mantra's again, but you keep asking for them......

In my childhood days, the year was measured against two points: Christmas holiday and summer break. Everything lead up to these pinnacles. On the last day of school, I would literally run home with my arms waving in hysterical delight. I really wish I still had points equivalent to these in adulthood.

You left the delight. That's a bummer, i'm serious.
But i can hardly imagine you thought it would be lying around somewhere in this forum, though this forum can certainly lift you from your "mundane" life from time to time.....

As for "true love" (not love of family and such), with the valiant knight and the beautiful princess who lived happily ever after. I have found that the "twitterpation" part is easy, it is the "happily ever after" part that can get be a bit of a letdown.

I know i state the obvious, but "happily ever after" is something you have to work for and it won't come easy.
I'm very, very happy in that department for 11 years now, but i never take it for granted.
Really, every day more is a gift......


Good luck!!

Yogi

[Celerystalksme]

i would just like to add...*i have innocent eyes*