I just simply have to ask.. The latest fiasco in the Med. Sea (Turks & IDF soldiers)

[torrentt]

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage

The "no wrong" is a general question, not specific to this particular incident. It goes with your reasoning that people are anti Israeli, does the standard apply to pro Israeli?
The ship was in international water as far as I can tell. Does the crew have the right to repel an armed boarding party, any boarding party, in self defense?

What terrorists are you referring to? Are you saying that those on board the ship were terrorists?

Where did these guns used to shoot at the soldier come from?

Still waiting for you to define "anti Israel", seeing as you have accused previous posters of being such.


I can't say one way or the other who holds responsibility for the incident. I wasn't there and don't have all the facts. I doubt it's as cut and dry as either side are making out.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082...25641f002d49ce

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.



http://www.lawofwar.org/naval_warfar...ion_N-114M.htm

7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

about the anti-israel, its someone who will always be against israel.

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

[bigboab]

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Does anybody in America take this guy seriously?

Quote from the above: ' In 1917 most of Europe wanted to go to war. In fact most of Europe was preparing for war'.

Actually in 1917 most of Europe had been at war for 3 years. The first World War started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

I often wondered why some Americans scoffed at 'Fox' alleging that they distorted the truth. Know I know.

P.S. If you want to know a bit of history of this region and who was 'actually promised' the land now known as Israel then read 'The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom'.* It will give you a bit of insight into the duplicity in the forming of the state of Israel.


* That is if you have a spare couple of months.

[devilsadvocate]

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082...25641f002d49ce

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.



http://www.lawofwar.org/naval_warfar...ion_N-114M.htm

7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

about the anti-israel, its someone who will always be against israel.

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Neither of your links work, but I'm asking you your opinion, if you think they have the right to defend themselves. Would Arab nations have the right to blockade or board Israel bound ships? You made a statement about who shot first, but didn't answer where the guns came from.

Thanks for the definition of "anti Israel", now please tell me why those you told tralalalala to ignore fit the profile. Do you consider me to be "anti Israel"? If so, why?

As for watching Beck as a source of any form of reality, I have a serious question-

ARE YOU ON DRUGS?

That's not meant to be an insult, seriously, are you?

[999969999]

It reminds me of how the state of Arizona has been called racist and evil and has been boycotted by other states, counties, and cities merely because it wants to protect itself from all the crime sweeping across its border from Mexico.

So you are happy to have to carry proof of citizenship or be detained until you can prove you are a citizen?

Nobody is complaining about trying to stop illegal immigration, they are complaining because the law sets up natural born and legal immigrants for harassment that, lets be honest, no white yahoo will have to endure.

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.

[999969999]

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Does anybody in America take this guy seriously?

Quote from the above: ' In 1917 most of Europe wanted to go to war. In fact most of Europe was preparing for war'.

Actually in 1917 most of Europe had been at war for 3 years. The first World War started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

I often wondered why some Americans scoffed at 'Fox' alleging that they distorted the truth. Know I know.

P.S. If you want to know a bit of history of this region and who was 'actually promised' the land now known as Israel then read 'The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom'.* It will give you a bit of insight into the duplicty in the forming of the state of Israel.


* That is if you have a spare couple of months.

Um, yes, we do like Glenn Beck and the Fox network. He is very popular in Arizona. And yes, he is a MORMON, and not Jewish, so he is not biased in favor of Israel for religious reasons.

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.

[devilsadvocate]

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.

This is BEFORE the law comes into effect http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/M...-91769419.html

I only carry my license when I'm driving. If I take the dog for a walk or we go to the park and I'm not driving I leave my wallet at home.

You listen to way too much talk radio.

[devilsadvocate]

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.

Oh come on, even the guy form the MRC admits fox has conservative bias

We conservatives have our own newspapers, led nationally by the Wall Street Journal. Actually, against mainstream Liberal media we have our own conservative counterculture led by the Journal, Fox News, talk radio, our think tanks and magazines. We can hold our own against the Kultursmog the mainstream media culture besmogged as it is by Liberal prejudice and bugaboos.

[999969999]

Out of curiosity, do you think Israel has done no wrong?

Define "anti Israel"

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, this doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that they are always or even mostly acting justly or in self defense. The same applies to the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter

It seems that criticism or questioning of any Israeli policy or action makes one an anti Semite or or pro Arab.

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage

This is a very good point.

The outrage against Israel always seems to be blown way out of proportion.

They seem to be held to very different standard than the rest of the world.

Much like Arizona, again.

Arizona's anti-illegal immigration law is called racist and evil, but Mexico's own immigration laws (Ley de poblacion) is much more strict with very harsh penalties for crossing their borders illegally, and they even have not just racial profiling, but a part of the law which states that if immigration from another country would upset their demographic balance, then it is not allowed. But no one calls them racist or evil. It's okay for them to try to defend themselves and protect the sovereignty of their borders, but it we do it in ARIZONA then we're evil and horrible people.

[999969999]

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.

This is BEFORE the law comes into effect http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/M...-91769419.html

I only carry my license when I'm driving. If I take the dog for a walk or we go to the park and I'm not driving I leave my wallet at home.

You listen to way too much talk radio.

Oh channel 3 (azfamily) is quite liberal, so I'm not surprised about them promoting such garbage.

If you want an Arizona driver's license you must provide a birth certificate. What's wrong with that?

Would it kill you to take your driver's license with you when you walked to the park? I don't think it would be that big of a deal. They're not that heavy or hard to carry, you know?

[devilsadvocate]

Oh channel 3 (azfamily) is quite liberal, so I'm not surprised about them promoting such garbage.

If you want an Arizona driver's license you must provide a birth certificate. What's wrong with that?

Would it kill you to take your driver's license with you when you walked to the park? I don't think it would be that big of a deal. They're not that heavy or hard to carry, you know?

And I thought you were for government out of our lives. Yet you seem to be fine with what amounts to compulsory id.

No it's not heavy and it's not hard to carry, I probably wouldn't even be asked for it because I'm white. The issue is that as an Americans we don't have to carry ID and our liberty shouldn't be at risk because we don't always have it on us.

I just linked to the first site I found with the story. Are you saying it didn't happen because it doesn't fit your world view? I mean the guy was born here, had a driving license and a social security number yet was still detained. Do you think that's okay?