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Thread: Marxism/communism/socialism

  1. #11
    Biggles's Avatar Looking for loopholes
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    The idea that resources could be held for a common good is not new. I think Acts chapter 4 verses 32-35 are relevant here. I simply throw it in as an indication that the idea of a simple communism has old historical roots. Well ok .. I am being a tad contentious, sorry.

    Marx took the whole thing much further and suggested, using a form of Hegelian dialectical materialism, that such a society would be the inevitable result of dynamic interaction between interested parties. That is, feudalism gave way to the power of the merchants because ultimately the feudal Lords became reliant on the wealth created by the urban merchants. In turn, the urban merchants could function better with free labour and all the tensions that would bring etc., etc.,

    Whilst certain elements of the process are self evident there was perhaps an overly simplistic assumption that the end result would be a utopian workers paradise. One could, with the advantage of hindsight, argue that there could many loops and dynamic interactions before any such state is reached. In a sense Trotsky could see this and said sod it lets foster revolution everywhere and nip it all in the bud. Stalin, on the other hand, was quite happy shooting those he was convinced were trying to usurp power at home.

    Lenin was somewhere between the two with the added gift of actually inspiring devotion (rather than fear) in those who heard him deliver his message. Quite where Russia and the revolution would have gone had he lived is anyone's guess.
    Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum


  2. The Drawing Room   -   #12
    Skweeky's Avatar Manker's web totty
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    Trotski and Lenin saw the advantages of MARXISM and turned it into COMMUNISM by putting the idea into practice.

    I do not blame the idea, I already said Marxism isn't a bad idea. You're not being consistent in your arguments.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #13
    chalice's Avatar ____________________
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    Dialectical materialism, Biggles.- My favourite brand of capitalism. Wot, wot.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #14
    Biggles's Avatar Looking for loopholes
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    Not easy to get into a can but if packaged right anything will sell.
    Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum


  5. The Drawing Room   -   #15
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    I think I took the wrong side in this argument

    I do not see what we are arguing now?

    The essence of communism is socialism. socialism is the essence of a political system created 1400 years ago. both have been distorted in a way.

    Trotski and Lenin saw the advantages, they had a mathmatical mind, money, resources = strength and power (from what I have read) Stalin pops in makes it pretty much a Police state and ruins every thing.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #16
    Skweeky's Avatar Manker's web totty
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    no no no

    MARXISM is the essence of SOCIALISM

    The essence of COMMUNISM is FASCISM....

    Communism is not the same thing as marxism

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #17
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    Originally posted by noname12@31 October 2003 - 23:06
    I think I took the wrong side in this argument

    I do not see what we are arguing now?

    The essence of communism is socialism. socialism is the essence of a political system created 1400 years ago. both have been distorted in a way.

    Trotski and Lenin saw the advantages, they had a mathmatical mind, money, resources = strength and power (from what I have read) Stalin pops in makes it pretty much a Police state and ruins every thing.
    Hmmmm Seems strange to have a mad, despot dictator for a sig then...

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #18
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    Originally posted by Skweeky@31 October 2003 - 22:08
    no no no

    MARXISM is the essence of SOCIALISM

    The essence of COMMUNISM is FASCISM....

    Communism is not the same thing as marxism
    We have strayed me thinks

    My research shows that socialism is actually the Islamic political system put in place by non other then Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) him self.

    A few hundred years later, things where made, then communism pops up.

    Communism is aimed at equality, same as the original socialism.

    Communism allows all service to be available to all men, again Socialism.

    Communism does not base quality of life on riches, each man can have what is available to the next, same as socialism.


    I'm getting very confused, very fast

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #19
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    Originally posted by mrcall1969+31 October 2003 - 22:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mrcall1969 @ 31 October 2003 - 22:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-noname12@31 October 2003 - 23:06
    I think I took the wrong side in this argument&nbsp;

    I do not see what we are arguing now?

    The essence of communism is socialism. socialism is the essence of a political system created 1400 years ago. both have been distorted in a way.

    Trotski and Lenin saw the advantages, they had a mathmatical mind, money, resources = strength and power (from what I have read) Stalin pops in makes it pretty much a Police state and ruins every thing.
    Hmmmm Seems strange to have a mad, despot dictator for a sig then... [/b][/quote]
    Hes the only Soviet figure I could find at the time

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #20
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    Originally posted by noname12+31 October 2003 - 23:12--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (noname12 @ 31 October 2003 - 23:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Originally posted by mrcall1969@31 October 2003 - 22:09
    <!--QuoteBegin-noname12
    @31 October 2003 - 23:06
    I think I took the wrong side in this argument

    I do not see what we are arguing now?

    The essence of communism is socialism. socialism is the essence of a political system created 1400 years ago. both have been distorted in a way.

    Trotski and Lenin saw the advantages, they had a mathmatical mind, money, resources = strength and power (from what I have read) Stalin pops in makes it pretty much a Police state and ruins every thing.

    Hmmmm Seems strange to have a mad, despot dictator for a sig then...
    Hes the only Soviet figure I could find at the time [/b][/quote]
    That&#39;s it...I&#39;m out of here

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