Obama Administration to File Suit Over Arizona Immigration Law

[j2k4]

So-

I interpret what I read here to mean that the participants think something like this quote...

"From Se7en (1995)
John Doe: Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention."

...is adequate to guide the discussion of the issue of Mexican immigration, apparently in the idiotic belief that tossing rancid insults amounts to "hitting someone with a sledgehammer".

I've been involved in some semi-heavy stuff here, but I have never experienced anything that warranted such a description, and I can say with confidence that none of you possesses sledgehammer rhetoric.

This thread has been exceptional only insofar as it represents a singular example of the type of pissy and feckless head-butting that never rises to a level that could be described - even charitably - as debate.

Pretty poor stuff by any and every standard.

[megabyteme]

How do you politely get someone to realize that their actions, and arguments are, in fact, racist. It is very easy for the majority (whites) to think of others (Mexican/Mexican-Americans) as only being "slightly inconveniences" by being pulled over and "checked out" in order to keep the area "safe".

Any conservative should recognize that this is FAR from being a "minor inconvenience".

You, and anyone else, would find this to be VERY unconstitutional if it were something you, yourself, had to face on a daily basis.


We've (US) already gone through this with the internment of Japanese-Americans. Can't we recognize it for what it is? After seeing so many posts denying it, one MUST raise their voice. If it gets ugly, it is because it NEEDS to. L33t's deleted posts are a great example of the climate we are in. Denial leads to anger, and eventually rioting. These unpleasant discussions are communication's equivalent to a riot.

*Addition* J2, your calm demeanor is an indication that you are not on the crappy end of the stick here. L33t's family, and himself, fall directly in this racist law's path. In fact, they are the sole targets.

I guarantee you will never get hassled because of this, why worry, right? It's for security? It is to protect the state coffers. And, it won't effect me. Why shouldn't I vote for it?

How do you feel when a tax gets implemented that hits only small businesses? That's what it's like, only FAR worse. This law says, "You aren't a REAL American, Mexican"- even to those BORN legally here.

When people deny thes4e facts, it's VERY hard to NOT hit them in the face with a SLEDGEHAMMER- they need it, IMO.

[megabyteme]

Or maybe try filling this out:

L33t, and his family, legal American citizens, deserve to have their constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties revoked because ________________. (Try to not use race as a basis here.)

Furthermore, L33t and his family have NO right to get angry, or inflammatory, during discussions which label them as second class citizens, unworthy of full civil rights guaranteed to all Americans because _______________________________. (Mention that others who LOOK like them, MIGHT be illegal.)

Any outbursts from L33t will be removed, and his status on this site will be jeopardized.



Sincerely,

Real, full-fledged, Americans who will NOT be effected by the above.

[MagicNakor]

If the facts are on your side, bang on the facts. If the law is on your side, bang on the law. If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, bang on the table. -Cliché shared amongst lawyers

There's a lot of table banging going on, in here and out there.

Why not lock this thread and start anew? It's getting long in the tooth anyhow; leave a redirect if you'd like. I don't see what would be served by moving it into the Lounge, unless the purpose is to have a bit of a backyard brawl (in which case, by all means). If the idea is to kill it with general Lounge-ishness, it'll likely be locked later. The idea behind the Drawing Room is (was?) the ability to post on topics that have a tendency to get heated. FFS, it's in the sticky:

This is not an excuse to say one off offensive remarks... If you have a point to make, then make it with evidence.

One off remarks such as "I hate Muslims" and anything else construed as being beyond the rules of civilised behaviour will be dealt with. This is not to stifle debate... if you have a controversial comment to make, then by all means make it... BUT BACK IT UP.

[megabyteme]

Oops. My bad.

Spoiler: Show

I actually meant for you to fill it out with your name, and family. Oh well, just leave the answers the same, and we'll just implement those...

[999969999]

The struggle between a minority group, and the majority is one of power. If that majority decides to keep acting unjustly, the minority population is left with no other option, but a show of force- on so significant that the majority is left with balancing the joys of domination over the minority, and the fear it faces of their discontent.

As I said, civility has no place in a discussion regarding laws based in the abuse of a minority group by a racist majority. While many individuals may not consider themselves racist- especially when they are following the political winds of the times, they still are acting qas racists. These individuals need to hear the voices of the minority. Whispers do not work, nor belong.

From Se7en (1995)

John Doe: Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention.

The tone, words, and anger expressed by my friend L33t were not only appropriate, but necessary.

Toned way down, here is my response...

You have really proved one of my main points that I have already posted before in this thread. To the liberal mindset, racist comments are okay from certain people when they are directed at certain other people. But the reverse is not okay to liberals.

Can you step outside your situation and see how this looks to certain other people? How this can make these certain other people a bit upset, and cause them to use angry, over the top words to fight back?

Mexico tries to protect the sovereignty of its borders with a far more draconian immigration law (as quoted in earlier posts) than the relatively mild Arizona law. It even states that it does not want to upset the demographic balance of its country. And that all immigrants who immigrate to Mexico must be capable of supporting themselves so they are not a drain on the government and taxpayers. I see nothing wrong with this.

And I see nothing wrong with the Arizona law. It merely mirrors the current Federal immigration law, which is mild in comparison to Mexico's immigration law.

If it were up to me, I would solve the problem by hiring enough full time, permanent border patrol agents to patrol both the entire northern and southern borders 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and to sufficiently man all border crossings and check points and airports and sea ports to ensure that people are entering legally. It is really the only solution to the problem. We must be able to control who comes into our country to remain a sovereign nation.

I also support a crackdown on any employer who hires illegal immigrants. Arizona already has this law (and is making its way to the U.S. supreme court), but unfortunately, it is not being fully and properly enforced. After I looked into this matter I found out that I was wrong about Sheriff Joe of Maricopa County. He is not enforcing it against employers, but just the employees, and I agree that is wrong.

I also agree with leet about a nationwide biometric i.d. card and database. It is essential to have such a system if we are really serious about immigration reform.

And if we would do all of the above things FIRST, to ensure that we have a system that can truly control who comes into our country and who works here, then I FULLY SUPPORT AMNESTY for all the current illegal immigrants to make them citizens and bring them out of the shadows and into our system, and maybe assimilate them a bit into the American culture.


Now we've had our shits and giggles over this thread and I have laughed my ass off over many of the posts in this thread (the crazier and more absurd my posts became the more you all fell for them and took them seriously! Hilarious!), and while it has been fun, it probably is time to move on to a new topic and close this thread.