Why didn't Oink, Elitetorrents etc. users get mass sued?

[haslingdene]

I've been reading a load of old torrent news/history recently and I've noticed that a number of private trackers have been taken down, many captured intact by the authorities and often by industry associations like the RIAA, IFPI, etc.

So why haven't the users of all these sites been sued en masse, if all their details were captured along with IPs attached to accounts? As far as I'm able to tell, no one has been sued from any of these famous private tracker take-downs. A few admins and pre-releasers got arrested and some convicted, but why do RIAA who sue randoms for downloading a couple of things from public trackers seem indifferent to a massive database of potential law-suit victims who are all at least moderate infringers, and many heavy? Even a "pay up or else" letter-writing scheme would rake in substantial sums even if there was no follow-through for non-payees.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Cabalo]

Do you happen to work for any anti-piracy organization or movement?

[haslingdene]

:/

If I were working for anti-filesharers then why would I be asking uninformed randomers about my own actions?

I'm trying to work out if public or private trackers are safer. Articles like these tend to say that public gives a greater chance of being caught by IP trawlers, but are far less vulnerable to the server being seized because they don't keep records. But there are a number of incidents when private trackers did get seized and (apparently) nothing happened to the rank and file members, only staff and a couple of particularly egregious uploaders. So that would indicate that private trackers a whole lot safer. But I don't quite understand why they didn't try suing everyone on the OiNK database (for instance), so if anyone can shed some light on that, it would be very helpful.

[Polarbear]

Because they need to prove that you uploaded copyrighted material. Stay away from public trackers.

[haslingdene]

Well yes, but don't these sites keep extensive records? They log all account IPs and that is attached to a list of downloads and uploads. Maybe it's not enough for a criminal prosecution (which is fine, because file-sharing is not generally criminal in UK), but civil damages only require a preponderance of evidence.

[haslingdene]

[My last post didn't show up, but I seem to be able to post elsewhere so I'm not sure what's going on. Apologies if this turns out to be a double post in a couple of hours.]

Because they need to prove that you uploaded copyrighted material. Stay away from public trackers.

I'm not at all suggesting people use public trackers. That article suggesting private trackers have a safety downside was based on the notion that private trackers that get closed down would have their database used to track down all the users. But, we know from experience that this doesn't actually happen. So what I was wondering is why the various rights holder organisations don't seem interested in these databses.

[Polarbear]

So what I was wondering is why the various rights holder organisations don't seem interested in these databses.

I can only speak for my country. Different countries different laws. The databases aren't evidence. I didn't upload any files and I don't care what some database on an illegal torrent site says. They have to catch you red handed. They have to tell you exactly when, what and with what IP you uploaded a copyrighted file. Of course they can easily do this by logging into a BT swarm and log your IP. They have software that does that automatically. But it's too much hassle to become a member of a private site to catch a few IPs. Public trackers are much easier and you can collect much more data. Even if they log my IP they have to be fast, because my provider only saves it for seven days.

In Germany thousand of C&D letters have been sent to filesharers. All of them were caught on public trackers or Emule etc. I don't know a single case where someone received a law firm letter because he shared on a private tracker.

Even if you get one of these pay or get sued letters, it'll cost you 300€ for a lawyer and you're done. As long as you don't run a huge FTP server or sell warez on a professional basis there's nothing to be afraid of.

Again, that goes for my country only.

[bijoy]

Who is gonna prove that the any persons were a user there?

btw I think you were not a user of any of those right?

[Polarbear]

Where has my country flag gone by the way?

[haslingdene]

So what I was wondering is why the various rights holder organisations don't seem interested in these databses.

I can only speak for my country. Different countries different laws. The databases aren't evidence. I didn't upload any files and I don't care what some database on an illegal torrent site says. They have to catch you red handed. They have to tell you exactly when, what and with what IP you uploaded a copyrighted file. Of course they can easily do this by logging into a BT swarm and log your IP. They have software that does that automatically. But it's too much hassle to become a member of a private site to catch a few IPs. Public trackers are much easier and you can collect much more data. Even if they log my IP they have to be fast, because my provider only saves it for seven days.

In Germany thousand of C&D letters have been sent to filesharers. All of them were caught on public trackers or Emule etc. I don't know a single case where someone received a law firm letter because he shared on a private tracker.

Even if you get one of these pay or get sued letters, it'll cost you 300€ for a lawyer and you're done. As long as you don't run a huge FTP server or sell warez on a professional basis there's nothing to be afraid of.

Again, that goes for my country only.

Right.

I'm just curious because I'd have thought an IP-indexed database of everything people download would be good enough for civil damages (preponderance of evidence), even if it's not good enough for criminal prosecution (beyond reasonable doubt).

But I'm not really doubting you, because like I say, there are plenty of actual examples of private trackers having their servers seized by police and handed over to industry associations, and nothing coming of it except against owners and sometimes pre-releasers.