The Bible

[Mad Cat]

The bible is a collection of stories based on the teachings of prophets that lived years ago.

I myself believe that it was employed as a form of control over people in the past, and to some extent is being used today.
In the middle ages nobody, nobody at all, would deface/disbelieve a church/priest. They were simply scared of going to hell. Since there was little or no policing back then, it was an extremely clever and important tool.

We should study the bible as a historical document, and not follow it blindly.

The morales are well taught from the bible, and provide a basis for modern law, and what is deemed "acceptable" by society.

[soiD]

I think I would have her hand cut off too. Privates are not exactly made for squeezing! OUCH! That's pretty low when a woman can't allow men to settle their differances mano-a-mano, and she has to go for the family jewels because her wimpy husband is getting his butt kicked.

Yes, let's cut off all the hands of woman who SIEZED a male genital not squeezed. Wow, that seems very moral. Let's all go out and go do this! Who's with me??

If you read the entire chapter you'll see that the reason that the people were killed was to prevent the spreading of a plague. Seems that the plague was spread through the male gene side.

If that seems moral, why not go out and kill every person who has an STD and AIDS? After all, we need to stop this "plague" don't you think? They have no right to live because they are sick right?

They had very tough laws in those days for sexual immorality. It was very important that a girl was not sleeping around. It would of been pretty bad for a man to leave all his inheritance to another mans child, when he thought it was his own.

Very tough laws? This is a command by your god to STONE a woman who is not a virgin. Who said that just because you had sex before you got married made you "sleeping around"?

Nice to know that God is no wimp, and He is willing to kick some a$$ when He needs to.

God is a "he"?

That was the law back then for the Jewish people. Just the same way that mankind has the power over the animals of the world to kill them or to let them live (because we are greater then them), God can excercise His right to kill us or let us live because He is greater then us.

What happened to "Thou shalt not kill" ? So if I feel that I am greater than my little brother I have the right to beat the shit out of him and after that kill him? Hey, maybe I should beat up a Panda at my local zoo, I'm sure they'll understand the reasons behind what I did.

The "speaking against the Holy Spirit" was a very serious sin which was unpardonable. People that committed it could never be forgiven. The problem was that Jesus was doing all these miracles by the very power that the Holy Spirit gave
him. It was these miracles that proved that he was really from God, for only one from God could perform such amazing things, But the ones that committed this sin were saying that Jesus was doing his miracles by the power of the devil (Matthew 12:22-37). Saying that the devil did those miracles when the Holy Spirit did them through Jesus was unforgivable in God's eyes.

What do you mean "was"?? If you read it, anyone who speaks against the holy spirit would eventually burn in hell or forgiven. So I am going to be punished because I am saying what I want? Sounds like a fairy tale to me. Can you answer this question please? Do you believe god is omnipotent?

God makes the rules, so that's the final word. People might be brave now and talk shit about God, but when death is creeping upon you.... you will be scared to hell of death.

You don't understand. It says "He who believes and who is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." So what about all the caring Muslims in the world? How about the Buddhist monks promoting peace? They will burn in hell simply because they didn't get baptized? Are you saying the whole purpose in life is to get baptized?

I almost died several times, and I was scared not sure what to expect on the otherside. When your healthy and fine....there is no fear. Things are differant when your time is almost up.

Yes, you have just fed into the fear tactics of Christianity. If you go against god, you will burn in hell. If you follow this being BUT don't go to church, you will burn in hell. If you happen to watch TV on the sabbath, you will burn in hell. Yes, lets feed fear to all the children.

St. Luke 12:51

How true that was! Many of the Jewish families were divided because of differances in beliefs.

Wait. Let's take a look at this quote once again.

"Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law."

Jesus-Luke 12:51

So it's try that Jesus did not come to give peace on earth, and his whole purpose was to divide everyone? If that's true, than I can be forgiven for punching my mom in the mouth for being Catholic? After all, he came to bring division.

Jesus was not saying for people to "hate" their parents. The word was misstranslated from the greek. The true meaning is "love less".

Why didn't they fix it then? If you can see that, why didn't the churches notice this error and change it?

This verse actually meant that there were woman that went to church to gossip or to chat. It was very unpolite. Church was a place of worship, not to find out the gossip of the week.

Actually, wrong, at the time women were seen to be inferior to men, hence the reason people refer god as a "He" instead of "She". It's not because women chat at church. Seriously, how dumb can you be?

This doesn't mean that woman should be slaves to their husbands. It means that a woman should be there to support her husband in all things. The husband should be the boss of the household, but should not abuse his power. He should treat his wife as a queen and be aware of her needs also (See verse 5:25).

"For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does..."

1 Corinthians 7:4

And thanks for clearing that a Saint's opinion means shit in the Bible.

Just some foretold prophecy.

Just like what's going to happen on Judgement Day?

Just like a cancer that has to be cut out to save the rest of the body. These cities had to be destroyed as to protect the rest of the human race. The children were being raised in a enviroment were adult/child sex, and animal/human sex was the normal. Every living thing had been corrupted by these twisted sexual behaviors. To allow any survivors would just eventually corrupt the rest of mankind. There was also interbreeding problems between angels/humans that also caused judgement from God.

LMAOOO!!! OMFG are you serious??

I have peace of mind, and I don't worry about death.

Really? I guess this is why you said this:

I almost died several times, and I was scared not sure what to expect on the otherside.

HMMM B)

[Mobas]

To soiD:


Cutting off womans hands for that offense may not seem moral to you, but that was the law back then. Much of the Old testament laws no longer apply for now. They were intended for the Jewish people for those days. The New Testiment is
for now. Going around cutting off womans hands is not necessary. Just the same way that many people were stoned back then, Jesus showed that it was no longer required now (St. John 8:1-11).

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I never said that the killing of the plagued people was morally right or wrong. Moses was the one that gave the order. Many of the prophets did things back then that are now deemed unnecessary. It is unfair to judge God by the deeds of men. People are not perfect, and they will make mistakes.

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Yes, God is a "He". All the descriptions of Him in the Bible are male descriptions. Jesus said "Father" St. Matthew 6:6-9, Hebrews 1:1-3, 10-14).

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The "Thou shalt not kill" is a misstranslation from the original hebrew. It really means "Thou shalt do no murder". Killing and murder are two differant things. Murder = taking a human life unlawfully. Killing is ok if its for capital punishment or if your defending your life or war, etc. Animals are not regarded as equals to human beings, so they don't have the same rights as we do. This doesn't mean we should go around beating up Pandas at our local zoo. Mankind proves his rulership over the animals by putting them in zoos or making food out of them.

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The unpardonable sin was very serious in God's eyes. Anyone who would go so far as to say that Jesus was doing all his miracles by the power of the devil would never believe in him anyway, and would be condemned just the same. Do I
believe God is Omnipotent? Well, I believe that God can do all things that are possible.

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As to the baptized part you mentioned in St. Mark 16:16. The "baptized" your thinking about is not the water baptizing that is done in churches today, but I believe it is referring to the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit (St. John
1:29-33). What about the caring Muslims? or the peacefull buddhist monks? Well the Muslim people go by the Koran, and the Koran says that Jesus was from God and it records many of the miracles that he did. Jesus said that "No man comes
to the Father, but by me" (St. John 14:6). The Muslims should not give credibility to Jesus if they're not going to believe what he said. As for the poor buddhist monks, it doesn't matter what they believe. God makes the rules on salvation so what man thinks makes no differance.

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You don't have to go to church to go to Heaven. God made salvation very simple and easy. Salvation is a free gift to those that are willing to accept it (St. John 3:16). God is not making the way to Heaven so hard as to be unreachable. Many religions of the world like to put control on peoples lives, to police them into submission. All that God wants people to know is that dispite the fact that we screw-up, and we fall short of His perfect standard, He wants us to know that He is willing to wipe our slates clean, and give us a new start. Make us a child of His by adoption. All that we have to do is believe and accept what He said by faith. God said that Jesus death on the cross was for the purpose of paying for our screwups (our sins). God said that if we are willing to believe that, then he will forgive us without question. Salvation is that simple. Those that choose to call God a liar by saying "no" to Jesus will have to account for their own sins (1 John 5:9-13). Those that accept God's free gift will be saved. I made my choice.

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(St. Luke 12:51-53) The "division" is the same like we have right now. The original word in the greek means "disunion of opinion", like we have right now between you and me. Before Jesus came the families of a household were for the most part agreeing on the matter of God's Word. But Jesus new that he would cause the families of a household to be divided because of him (some would accept him, and some wouldn't). He came with the truth. The truth will divide people. He wasn't talking about about violence like you mentioned about you punching your mom in the mouth. The word that was translated as "peace" in the greek can also mean "quietness". Jesus came not to cause "quietness" on the Earth, but he came to cause "disunion of opinion" is a better translation.

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You ask why didn't the churches fix the error in the translation of St. Luke 14:26 (the "hate" "love less"). This error is well know in the Bible community.

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Why do you only quote part of the verse? 1 Corinthians 7:4 reads "The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife".

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Again you took my words out of context. At the time when I almost died I was scared of death not knowing what to expect on the otherside, but I later accepted God's salvation, then I had peace of mind when it came to the whole death thing.

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Its a real shame you have so much hate for the Bible and God. Seems that your trying your best to trash the Bible. Did some religion do you wrong or something?

[soiD]

Cutting off womans hands for that offense may not seem moral to you, but that was the law back then. Much of the Old testament laws no longer apply for now. They were intended for the Jewish people for those days. The New Testiment is for now. Going around cutting off womans hands is not necessary. Just the same way that many people were stoned back then, Jesus showed that it was no longer required now (St. John 8:1-11).

So what it was the law back than? So are you telling me that this christian god of yours follows the laws of man and not his own? So if the law now is that I have free will to choose any religion I want and express it freely without punishment, would I be forgiven in heaven because that is the law at the time? And can we forgive Hitler for killing so many Jews, because at the time he made the law that they should be exterminated?

I never said that the killing of the plagued people was morally right or wrong. Moses was the one that gave the order. Many of the prophets did things back then that are now deemed unnecessary. It is unfair to judge God by the deeds of men. People are not perfect, and they will make mistakes.

Without man, how would the Bible or your religion exist? If it weren't for man, you would never have had the faith of Christianity in the first place. Without man writing the Bible, there would be 0 of a Christian gods deeds. It doesn't matter anyway if Moses commanded it, because in the Bible, god is a fierce and jealous man who slays those who don't believe in "him". So if man is not perfect, than i guess you can say neither is God, because got is a man, remember?

The "Thou shalt not kill" is a misstranslation from the original hebrew. It really means "Thou shalt do no murder". Killing and murder are two differant things.

kill1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kl)
v. killed, kill·ing, kills
v. tr.

To put to death.
To deprive of life
To put an end to; extinguish
To destroy a vitally essential quality in
To cause to cease operating
To tire out completely; exhaust
To pass (time) in aimless activity
To consume entirely; finish off
To cause extreme pain or discomfort to
To mark for deletion; rule out
To thwart passage of; veto

mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock1.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.
To put an end to; destroy
To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce.

Seems like they are the same shit to me!

Killing is ok if its for capital punishment or if your defending your life or war

So I guess we can agree that when God commanded Moses to kill all males, females known to sleeping with man, and all little children, it wouldn't be ok because you are not defending your life, and it is not capital punishment. Also, when God commands people to be stoned or slayed for not having the same faith that would mean he is murdering. Am I right?

The unpardonable sin was very serious in God's eyes. Anyone who would go so far as to say that Jesus was doing all his miracles by the power of the devil would never believe in him anyway, and would be condemned just the same.

So men have no rights or freedom?

Do I believe God is Omnipotent? Well, I believe that God can do all things that are possible.

Answer the question.

As to the baptized part you mentioned in St. Mark 16:16. The "baptized" your thinking about is not the water baptizing that is done in churches today, but I believe it is referring to the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit (St. John
1:29-33). What about the caring Muslims? or the peacefull buddhist monks? Well the Muslim people go by the Koran, and the Koran says that Jesus was from God and it records many of the miracles that he did. Jesus said that "No man comes
to the Father, but by me" (St. John 14:6). The Muslims should not give credibility to Jesus if they're not going to believe what he said. As for the poor buddhist monks, it doesn't matter what they believe. God makes the rules on salvation so what man thinks makes no differance.

I'm lost. Are you telling me that no matter how you act on earth, your salvation depends on whatever religion you are from?

You don't have to go to church to go to Heaven. God made salvation very simple and easy. Salvation is a free gift to those that are willing to accept it (St. John 3:16). God is not making the way to Heaven so hard as to be unreachable. Many religions of the world like to put control on peoples lives, to police them into submission. All that God wants people to know is that dispite the fact that we screw-up, and we fall short of His perfect standard, He wants us to know that He is willing to wipe our slates clean, and give us a new start. Make us a child of His by adoption. All that we have to do is believe and accept what He said by faith.

Ok right now you are a FUCKING IDIOT. How can you tell me whats GOING to happen, and what your god wants when your religion is based on faith? Faith is the belief of something without any proof or facts. So how can you tell me I am going to hell if you are simply guessing I am? Isn't that puerile? How are you positive that I am going to hell through faith? That doesn't make sense. Maybe you're thinking of another word there, buddy. I couldn't read what you said after that simply because you just showed me you have no idea on what the fuck your saying.

(St. Luke 12:51-53) The "division" is the same like we have right now. The original word in the greek means "disunion of opinion", like we have right now between you and me. Before Jesus came the families of a household were for the most part agreeing on the matter of God's Word. But Jesus new that he would cause the families of a household to be divided because of him (some would accept him, and some wouldn't). He came with the truth. The truth will divide people. He wasn't talking about about violence like you mentioned about you punching your mom in the mouth. The word that was translated as "peace" in the greek can also mean "quietness". Jesus came not to cause "quietness" on the Earth, but he came to cause "disunion of opinion" is a better translation.

The thing is, he didn't say. "When I come there will be not be peace." Jesus said according to the bible, "I have not come to bring peace on earth, I came to bring division."

Unless "Came" means "Division is inevitable" or some other shit. I see your argument as shit so far.

You ask why didn't the churches fix the error in the translation of St. Luke 14:26 (the "hate" "love less"). This error is well know in the Bible community.

But why had they not fixed the error?

Why do you only quote part of the verse? 1 Corinthians 7:4 reads "The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife".

Becuase it pointed out the other quotes against women in the Bible.

Again you took my words out of context. At the time when I almost died I was scared of death not knowing what to expect on the otherside, but I later accepted God's salvation, then I had peace of mind when it came to the whole death thing.

HAHAAHA. Right, don't you think fearing little demons on "the otherside" (Whereever that is) is a bit unhealthy?

Its a real shame you have so much hate for the Bible and God. Seems that your trying your best to trash the Bible. Did some religion do you wrong or something?

Huh? Where did I say I hated the Bible? In fact, on the contrary, I think the Bible is a great tool on controlling society back then, but seeing how outdated it is, I can't believe people still follow it. Also, who said I hated god? I don't hate god, I just hate your fierce, and wrathful God (Ps 2:11). God on the otherhand, is everything around me, not a fat white man with a beard and naked angels who masturbates to our every move.

[**GASHA**]

I dont read the bible.
I dont need the bible.
I dont need any beliefs in anything other than me.
I dont need to be taught any morals. (my mother did that)
I dont need to be taught whats right and wrong.
I dont need to be told how to behave and interact with other human beings.
I dont need to be told how to treat others.

I do as I choose to do, we all know the difference between right and wrong ?

So why do people feel the need for any guidance from an old book in this world ?

I accept that the bible is probably a very well written book offering an insight into the past and how people thought etc, but how relevant is any of it today ?

Do all the people who read the bible or have religious beliefs really believe they would have become or would be a bad person had they not found 'god'. I dont think so, we all make our own decisions to be 'good' or 'bad'. bahhh

[Mad Cat]

Originally posted by **GASHA**@15 November 2003 - 09:00
I dont read the bible.
I dont need the bible.
I dont need any beliefs in anything other than me.
I dont need to be taught any morals. (my mother did that)
I dont need to be taught whats right and wrong.
I dont need to be told how to behave and interact with other human beings.
I dont need to be told how to treat others.

I do as I choose to do, we all know the difference between right and wrong ?

So why do people feel the need for any guidance from an old book in this world ?

I accept that the bible is probably a very well written book offering an insight into the past and how people thought etc, but how relevant is any of it today ?

Do all the people who read the bible or have religious beliefs really believe they would have become or would be a bad person had they not found 'god'. I dont think so, we all make our own decisions to be 'good' or 'bad'. bahhh

Well said, we live our own lives.
We don't need these beliefs pushed down on us.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by **GASHA**@15 November 2003 - 10:00
I dont read the bible.
I dont need the bible.
I dont need any beliefs in anything other than me.
I dont need to be taught any morals. (my mother did that)
I dont need to be taught whats right and wrong.
I dont need to be told how to behave and interact with other human beings.
I dont need to be told how to treat others.

I do as I choose to do, we all know the difference between right and wrong ?

So why do people feel the need for any guidance from an old book in this world ?

I accept that the bible is probably a very well written book offering an insight into the past and how people thought etc, but how relevant is any of it today ?

Do all the people who read the bible or have religious beliefs really believe they would have become or would be a bad person had they not found 'god'. I dont think so, we all make our own decisions to be 'good' or 'bad'. bahhh

You've got my vote.

As a species with moved on so far since the "bible" days and this ancient text just has no real relevance to us today. We have our own moral codes that we stick to, we know what is really wrong and what is acceptable.

I can understand that religion and the bible are important to a lot of people, but they should understand that we have made the choice not have religion in our lives. Am I a bad person because I reject the bible?

(God, I hate these religious threads but there's so little going on in Bookworld these days...)

[Mobas]

To soiD


I never said that God follows the laws of men. God does what He wills. So your statements about freewill to choose any religion you want without punishment or your statements about Hitler are unfounded.

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Mankind is not perfect, but God is perfect. So whats the big deal if God chooses to slay unbelievers? He is ruler of the universe. He can do what He wants to. People that arn't loyal to God would just make it bad for those that want to do God's will anyways.

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The laws about taking a persons life apply to human beings, not to God. God has the right to take any life He chooses to. So God is not a murderer.

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I did answer the question about God (the Omnipotent question). I believe that God can do all things that are possible. God cannot do everything. God cannot lie, He cannot deny Himself, He cannot destroy Himself where He no longer exist, He cannot create a rock so large that He can't lift it. All that really matters is that He is powerful enough to get the job done.

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Salvation according to the God of the Bible cannot be earned. The God of the Bible gave the way of salvation. It is the choice of everyone to either accept it or reject it.

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How can I tell you whats going to happen? The Bible contains prophecies and foretells what will happen in the future.How can I tell what my God wants? Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, and the miracles that were recorded in history
were the very evidence that he was from God. He verified the scriptures as being true, and the apostles were taught by him on the will of God. So the Bible is the key to understanding what God wants from us. For those that consider the Bible as a fairy-tale book, then all of this would sound silly to them, but to those that believe... it's the way to life (1 Corinthians 1:17-21).

[soiD]

I never said that God follows the laws of men.

Than what laws does your god follow? You told me:

Cutting off womans hands for that offense may not seem moral to you, but that was the law back then. and..
Jesus showed that it was no longer required now

Basically, why did your god decide to change laws simply because time passed by? If he is perfect, why does he feel that what he did back than shouldn't be required now? Shouldn't there be a reason for this, or are you going to tell me that your god does things without reason simply because he has nothing better to do than punish people?

Mankind is not perfect, but God is perfect.

Wasn't Jesus a man? So therefore since he was apart of mankind, he was not perfect?

So whats the big deal if God chooses to slay unbelievers?

Man is not perfect remember? So why should god blame man for mistakes they make because after all, they are simply human, and humans aren't perfect.

People that arn't loyal to God would just make it bad for those that want to do God's will anyways.

And people who ARE loyal already made it completely worse to those who don't do "God's will anyway".

For example:

On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:

"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]

17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]

The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]

As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]

And that's only a brief description on how bad those with "God's will" were dangered. You, my friend, are just a complete idiot.

The laws about taking a persons life apply to human beings, not to God. God has the right to take any life He chooses to. So God is not a murderer.

I feel I have the right to take any life I choose to, so I am not a murderer too. Correct?

God cannot do everything.

I thought your god was perfect? And if that's not true, if he cannot do everything, than he certainly can't do whatever he wants to like you said.

God cannot lie

God may not lie, but he most definently sends lies upon us.

1 Kg.22:23
"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

2 Chr.18:22
"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."

Ezek.14:9
"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

Yup, God doesn't lie.. only to prophets!

He cannot deny Himself

Really? What were the last words of Jesus when he was on the cross?

Salvation according to the God of the Bible cannot be earned. The God of the Bible gave the way of salvation. It is the choice of everyone to either accept it or reject it.

What choice is it if we are subconsciously only have a choice to accept it since according to you, those who reject it deserve to/can be slain.

How can I tell you whats going to happen? The Bible contains prophecies and foretells what will happen in the future.

Other religions have books on how Judgement day will be. What's the diference between the bible and these other books. Who am I supposed to believe since all claim the same thing? If I wrote a book that the last day will end with lesbians rising from the dead, and Vanilla Ice being popular again, will that make it valid? And why wouldn't it make it valid since it's a book that I claim is from God?

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, and the miracles that were recorded in history were the very evidence that he was from God.

You FOOL! There ARE no evidence of Jesus' miracles NOR if he existed or not. The Bible was wrtten up to 70+ years after Jesus' death. Why didn't anyone keep records of Jesus while he was alive? If these miracles were so great, why didn't anyone keep written records of it? THERE ARENT any records of Jesus' existence besides the Bible which was proven to be forged many years now. If you don't know that than you are a fucking idiot! If Jesus' history was a FACT than Christianity woudln't be much of a FAITH would it???

He verified the scriptures as being true

Than why don't Jews see him as the son of god?

So the Bible is the key to understanding what God wants from us.

What about the Qu'ran and the thousands of books that claim they are the word of god? How can you show me that the Bible is the way to understand what your god wants from us, and at the same time proving to me that the other books are not the true way.

For those that consider the Bible as a fairy-tale book, then all of this would sound silly to them

Damn right it does. Zombies walking from their grave, bread and fish falling from the sky, a person walking on water, a story of good and bad, demons, a person rising from the dead, yep, this sounds pretty silly to me!

but to those that believe... it's the way to life

They are pretty much idiots. Why the hell do you need a book to tell you how to act? It doesn't take me a book to know how to act around people. Morals existed before the Bible did, homie.

[Mobas]

To soiD:

Your asking me to tell you why God changes in His ways with dealing with people? Only God really knows the full reasons why He does the things He does. Mankind can not fully understand every detail of why God does the things He does. But I can say one thing. God had fortold in the Old Testament that He would change His dealings with human beings (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

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Yes, Jesus was a man, but according to the Bible he was/is God in the flesh, and perfect in His ways. God is perfectly good. God does not have to do everything to be perfectly good. If God sinned then He would not be perfectly good.

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God has provided a way of forgiveness to everyone on Earth. God understands that people sin. The only thing that keeps people from receiving that forgiveness is their own stubbornness. God made it easy, man makes it hard.

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Many people in the past have done many wrong things in the name of God. Jesus taught to love one another (St. Matthew 5:38-46). Not all people that claim to be followers of God are true followers (St. Mattthew 7:15-23). Despite the fact that you continually try to insult me, I really don't have any hate towards you.

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Like I said before, God can do what He wants since He doesn't account to anyone. Human beings have to account to God, so they don't have the same freedom as God has.

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As for God sending a lying spirit upon people. We don't have the right to judge God for what He does. He may send the "lying spirit" as a means to test people. Just like he hardened the heart of pharaoh. God has His reasons for doing the things He does.

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When I said that God can't deny Himself, I mean't that God can't say that He (God) doesn't exist.

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What choice is it to accept or reject God's way of salvation? Listen, If God says that people have to make a decision about salvation, then thats the way it is. If you have a problem with that, then you take it up with Him. I don't make the rules, God does.

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The Bible is differant then all other books that claim to be from God. The fullfilled prophecies, and the historical accuracy of the scriptures give the Bible the credibillity that it is more the just a regular book. My take on the Bible is that it was written by men that were guided by a supreme being (we call Him God), and the purpose of the Bible was to let mankind know how they (mankind) came about, why they were created, and what their future would be. When the original Hebrew was copied down from the manuscripts, the scribes had certain methods to make sure that the copy was as perfect as possible, so as time passed......nothing would be lost in the copying. I remember when it was mentioned that a copy of the book of Isaiah (Old Testament book) was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It turned out that it was almost perfect when compared to a current copy that can be found in a Hebrew Bible. Not bad for a book that was
thousands of years old. So I think that the Bible has not lost any of its content in terms of what God had intended for us to know over time. http://www.reasons.org/

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The New Testament account of Jesus is accurate. http://www.carm.org/evidence/textualevidence.htm

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Not all Jewish people reject Jesus. Most of the first Christians were Jewish.

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I can see that this is going nowhere. we believe differantly. It's pointless for this to continue.

(2 Timothy 2:23-26, Titus 3:9-11)