Another Border Patrol Agent has been killed in Arizona.

[999969999]

First of all, I can't think of a single example of a non-porous border...anywhere or anytime.
Can you?

As an American tourist in Europe, attempting to legally cross the Austrian border, and later when attempting to legally cross the Finnish border, I encountered a great deal of scrutiny and observation-- much more than when I cross back and forth between the Nogales checkpoint into Mexico. So yes, I do think we can do better than we are currently doing.


Second, what you propose seems very similar to the approach taken by the TSA- i.e., lots of manpower and lots of tech- which hasn't shown any tangible results but certainly has made our lives more miserable.

A lot of this is because we are terrified of profiling.


I would suggest that some relatively simple political changes would have more impact than the Big Fence approach.
Legalize the drugs that make smuggling so profitable and prosecute the employers who depend on illegal labor, for starters.

On this, I agree with you. The war on drugs is a lost cause. If they were legalized to the point where druggies could just go down to Wal-Mart and buy their drugs legally, most of the crime associated with smuggling would come to an end. I would go one step further, of course, and say that if druggies get caught driving under the influence of these drugs, they would face extremely harsh penalties-- so harsh that it would discourage them from DUI. If they simply buy the drugs and then go home and use them at home, I don't care. But if they use the drugs and then go out and hurt someone, then I do care. And if employers were punished for hiring illegal aliens-- remember Arizona is being sued for its employer sanctions law and the U.S. Supreme Court is currently hearing arguments for and against it-- there would be less of a desire for illegal aliens to cross the border because there would be no jobs waiting for them in the U.S.


Beyond that, I don't know.
I do think that we all will have to accept a certain amount of porosity at the border unless we're willing to turn into a North Korea military dictatorship.
Which is kind of humorous actually...N. Korea has the template for the border you seem to envision but it defends a country no one wants to get into.

So, it can be done. Just because we have a secure border doesn't mean we have to be a military dictatorship like North Korea. But yes, along the border, we must have enough manpower to actually get the job done. What we are doing currently is scattering a handful of border patrol agents along the border to pretend that we are actually serious about controlling our border, and then they are of course, hopelessly outmanned and overwhelmed by the flood of illegals coming across our border.

[999969999]

If the Feds controlled the border properly, humans, drugs and weapons would no longer be able to flow across the border illegally at all.

You do know that the border patrol agent (may he RIP) that you used as an example for your talk radio fueled rant was a federal enforcement officer and was killed while protecting the border?



I'm glad you appreciate his sacrifice, really I am, but I'm also sorry you feel he and other agents like him either didn't want to do the job or simply wasn't up to the task.

That's not what I said. The Federal Government is not puting enough border patrol agents along the border to do the job properly. That is why he was killed. I want the Federal Government to stop pretending that it is doing its job. I want the Federal Government to actually do its job by puting ENOUGH border patrol agents along the border to truly stop all people from coming here illegally.

Parts of my state are already becoming too dangerous for American citizens to go into, and I don't think that is good thing. We are losing our sovereignty. You may not care, but I do.


He wasn't killed because the federal government isn't enforcing the border, he was killed while enforcing it.

He was killed because there weren't enough border patrol agents to stop these illegal aliens from crossing the border. They were already north of Nogales, Arizona, when they shot and killed him. They had already invaded the United States.


How do you intend to pay for your plan?

Bring the military home from places like Germany to defend our borders. If we can't even defend our own borders, why is our military all over the world protecting other countries? It's ridiculous.

[999969999]

I have an idea.

We can't afford to patrol/control/defend our border properly, or at all, really, and we certainly don't want to lose any more lives, so why don't we just abandon the border?

Really.

I agree.

If we are unwilling to do the job properly, then we should stop pretending to do the job at all.

Just have completely open borders and take over Mexico and Canada and make it into one huge country.

[bigboab]

I have an idea.

We can't afford to patrol/control/defend our border properly, or at all, really, and we certainly don't want to lose any more lives, so why don't we just abandon the border?

Really.

I agree.

If we are unwilling to do the job properly, then we should stop pretending to do the job at all.

Just have completely open borders and take over Mexico and Canada and make it into one huge country.

What makes you think that you would just 'take over'? You might find it would work the other way round. with open borders the peoples of central America might just take over you. As for Canada, I don't think they want you, or your country.

[devilsadvocate]

That's not what I said. The Federal Government is not puting enough border patrol agents along the border to do the job properly. That is why he was killed. I want the Federal Government to stop pretending that it is doing its job. I want the Federal Government to actually do its job by puting ENOUGH border patrol agents along the border to truly stop all people from coming here illegally.

He was killed because there weren't enough border patrol agents to stop these illegal aliens from crossing the border. They were already north of Nogales, Arizona, when they shot and killed him. They had already invaded the United States.

Cops get shot, heck thousands of civilians are shot each year, How many would be enough cops? Are our troop being killed because there aren't enough? Would we see zero fatalities if we increased the amount deployed?

Now I agree we need more resources on the boarder, but you turned this incident into an incoherent rant.

As an American tourist in Europe, attempting to legally cross the Austrian border, and later when attempting to legally cross the Finnish border, I encountered a great deal of scrutiny and observation-- much more than when I cross back and forth between the Nogales checkpoint into Mexico. So yes, I do think we can do better than we are currently doing.

How does that relate to your original rant? Are you suggesting that the drug smugglers, the arms smugglers and the non violent job seeking economic illegal border crossers do so via checkpoints?

And the greater level of scrutiny you encountered in Europe may have something to do with not having a European passport.

A lot of this is because we are terrified of profiling.

Do you know what a "mule" is and why they are used? Profiling has dramatic limitations.

[devilsadvocate]

As for Canada, I don't think they want you, or your country.

You're probably right, Walmart doesn't sell seal meat.

[bigboab]

As for Canada, I don't think they want you, or your country.

You're probably right, Walmart doesn't sell seal meat.

Walmart(Asda) does not sell anything bordering* on meat.

* See what I did there to keep on topic.

[clocker]

I have an idea.

We can't afford to patrol/control/defend our border properly, or at all, really, and we certainly don't want to lose any more lives, so why don't we just abandon the border?

Really.

I agree.

If we are unwilling to do the job properly, then we should stop pretending to do the job at all.

It's all in the definition of "properly" now, isn't it?

I imagine your concept of a properly defended border to be something of a Great Wall of China meets Star Wars, heavy technology type of thing.
There's a lesson to be learned from the Maginot Line that would be applicable here.

Instead of immediately (and exclusively) unpacking Halliburton's Lego set (and seriously, who else do you think will get the contract?), maybe look back and pinpoint the time when illegal immigration tipped over from a nuisance to a major problem and ask what changed to make it happen.

The problem with Fortress America is that once started, it cannot and will not stop.
Just like Skynet, the nature of the beast is to incorporate a fierce and ever expanding sense of self-preservation, and to do so early on.

A big reason to leave Iraq/Afghanistan (or wherever) is to decrease the military budget (and start spending it on things to benefit us), not merely transplant the machine to a new locale.

[MagicNakor]

As for Canada, I don't think they want you, or your country.

You're probably right, Walmart doesn't sell seal meat.

Its dog-sled repair service isn't much to write home about either. And its "maple-flavoured syrup" is a travesty.

[devilsadvocate]

You're probably right, Walmart doesn't sell seal meat.

Its dog-sled repair service isn't much to write home about either. And its "maple-flavoured syrup" is a travesty.

China doesn't make dog sleds

And even Walmart wouldn't sell "maple-flavoured syrup". They do have maple flavored syrup next to the sugar free maple and brown sugar oatmeal, one isle over from the frozen freedom fries.