Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[j2k4]

That's an entirely separate system

I want to recall what I said moments ago, as I think I might be overplaying voter significance at elections. Campaign managers decide who wins at each election.

Winning strategies are always better than losing ones, but underplaying the voter's role is a huge mistake; just ask me.

Ask the libs who watched Bush stumble through two terms.

As to your correct supposition about "The Fight", the court having ruled is meant to allow operational status - it likely will not, however, owing to the machination of the lawyers, who always see light at the end of every hole-in-the-ground.

[mjmacky]

That's an entirely separate system

I want to recall what I said moments ago, as I think I might be overplaying voter significance at elections. Campaign managers decide who wins at each election.

Winning strategies are always better than losing ones, but underplaying the voter's role is a huge mistake; just ask me.

Ask the libs who watched Bush stumble through two terms.

That is my point, you think the voters were really voting in their best interest putting Bush in office both terms? Propaganda wins every election, the voters are just pawns in that.

[j2k4]

Winning strategies are always better than losing ones, but underplaying the voter's role is a huge mistake; just ask me.

Ask the libs who watched Bush stumble through two terms.

That is my point, you think the voters were really voting in their best interest putting Bush in office both terms? Propaganda wins every election, the voters are just pawns in that.

Let's leave ideology aside for a moment so you can tell us how eight years of Al Gore would have gone?

While you are doing that, this American will try to forget for a moment that a non-American is (once again) presuming to pronounce definitively on matters American.

[mjmacky]

That is my point, you think the voters were really voting in their best interest putting Bush in office both terms? Propaganda wins every election, the voters are just pawns in that.

Let's leave ideology aside for a moment so you can tell us how eight years of Al Gore would have gone?

While you are doing that, this American will try to forget for a moment that a non-American is (once again) presuming to pronounce definitively on matters American.

How about leaving speculation aside as well. Though I'm reluctant to admit it while traveling, I suffer from American citizenship by birthright. I have, with the exception of 12 months (accumulated), resided in America my entire life. What made you think I'm not from here? I have been making arrangements to leave (permanently), but for now my current plan has me stuck here for a little while longer. Forgetting that, being an American doesn't automatically grant one wisdom about what should be done in their country, it usually just implies they have more of a vested interest in the results.

[j2k4]

Let's leave ideology aside for a moment so you can tell us how eight years of Al Gore would have gone?

While you are doing that, this American will try to forget for a moment that a non-American is (once again) presuming to pronounce definitively on matters American.

How about leaving speculation aside as well. Though I'm reluctant to admit it while traveling, I suffer from American citizenship by birthright. I have, with the exception of 12 months (accumulated), resided in America my entire life. What made you think I'm not from here? I have been making arrangements to leave (permanently), but for now my current plan has me stuck here for a little while longer. Forgetting that, being an American doesn't automatically grant one wisdom about what should be done in their country, it usually just implies they have more of a vested interest in the results.

Then I must offer you my sincerest apology for taking the liberty of mis-attributing your animus.

Please tell us about Mr. Gore, my American friend.

[mjmacky]

Then I must offer you my sincerest apology for taking the liberty of mis-attributing your animus.

Please tell us about Mr. Gore, my American friend.

It can be attributed to spiteful cynicism. I don't really like Gore that much either. I think in 2000 if I had my pick at all the major candidates (if forced) I would have gone for McCain. I liked him much more back then, I did not like him in 08 whatsoever. In 2004 the only candidate that had my interest was Kucinich. He had no chance at victory, and after a rather dismal state election process 2 years earlier, I didn't even bother voting in 2004. It feels like much of a fool's errand as I've grown quite apathetic to the entire process.

[megabyteme]

Winning strategies are always better than losing ones, but underplaying the voter's role is a huge mistake; just ask me.

Ask the libs who watched Bush stumble through two terms.

That is my point, you think the voters were really voting in their best interest putting Bush in office both terms? Propaganda wins every election, the voters are just pawns in that.

I am finding myself more, and more, disillusioned with our system (and everyone else's, as well), but think your statement here is a bit off, macky. Saying that propaganda is the winner of elections is akin to saying that advertising is the only reason people buy bread. There is still a demand side to politics. The masses still have to want/need to hear the messages being fed to them. However, I don't believe modern politics are driven by the masses.

What bothers me the most is that I don't see it changing- regardless of who runs/"wins" office.

[mjmacky]

Saying that propaganda is the winner of elections is akin to saying that advertising is the only reason people buy bread. There is still a demand side to politics. The masses still have to want/need to hear the messages being fed to them. However, I don't believe modern politics are driven by the masses.

What bothers me the most is that I don't see it changing- regardless of who runs/"wins" office.

But I find that analogy highly disproportionate. When's the last time you saw a bread commercial? Now a McD/BK/Wendy analogy would fit right in. In fact, I put political ads on the same level as fast food ads. I often see them and think, I don't like you're shitty food or I don't buy your shitty message. That's just me, but it apparently has major effects on the population en masse.

I would agree that it doesn't really change. I really like Obama as a man, he's intelligent with clear perspective and sound logic. As a politician though, I don't rank him that much higher than your standard politician (my definition of standard here isn't an average, as there's many that are way below standard IMO). There was a speech he gave after the Reverend Wright story where he addressed race relations that at the time surprised me that someone in public spoke that candidly about it. For sake of being thorough I dug up a youtube link for it, so that anyone can watch it if they wish. It contained both political pandering and candid honesty, which can clearly be discerned at stark contrast. It was what he revealed about himself as a man that I was given the chance to find a great deal of respect for him. I just didn't, and still don't share the same "hope" that he spoke of in the pandering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9al4IQOhk

[j2k4]

Then I must offer you my sincerest apology for taking the liberty of mis-attributing your animus.

Please tell us about Mr. Gore, my American friend.

It can be attributed to spiteful cynicism. I don't really like Gore that much either. I think in 2000 if I had my pick at all the major candidates (if forced) I would have gone for McCain. I liked him much more back then, I did not like him in 08 whatsoever. In 2004 the only candidate that had my interest was Kucinich. He had no chance at victory, and after a rather dismal state election process 2 years earlier, I didn't even bother voting in 2004. It feels like much of a fool's errand as I've grown quite apathetic to the entire process.

You couldn't be more wrong about my "spiteful cynicism", but never mind that.

I find it ironic that your self-admitted apathy only extends to the voting booth, which is the only way for your opinion to count.

I trust any lurkers here to publish their opinion of yours (or mine, for the matter), if you are the type to care about the score, but I must tell you how impressed I am that you cared enough to favor us with any of your posts, the least of which took more time than it would to pull the voting lever.

Apropos of nothing at all, can I ask if you are leaving to study colonialism for a few years before you come back here for a presidential run?

[mjmacky]

You couldn't be more wrong about my "spiteful cynicism", but never mind that.

I find it ironic that your self-admitted apathy only extends to the voting booth, which is the only way for your opinion to count.

I trust any lurkers here to publish their opinion of yours (or mine, for the matter), if you are the type to care about the score, but I must tell you how impressed I am that you cared enough to favor us with any of your posts, the least of which took more time than it would to pull the voting lever.

Apropos of nothing at all, can I ask if you are leaving to study colonialism for a few years before you come back here for a presidential run?

No no no, the spiteful cynicism is mine, not yours. It was in response to the wording you used about how you misinterpreted me... nevermind.

If voting were an online activity, that'd be different. Instead we're talking about driving over, finding parking, getting voter identification ready, waiting, waiting, waiting, vote. That's not including the prerequisite of making sure you have your voting information up to date, finding out you've lost your card, etc. All that for what? To vote between one clown or another, when advertisement has already determined the outcome? To vote on a slew of issues that pretty much get a 60-75 % favor of passing regardless of what they are. The symbolism of pointlessness makes the entire experience very agitating. Purging my opinions in digital form on some server accessible to the world, that's a lot more personally satisfying.

To answer your last questions, I am leaving to escape. To escape from:
-a majority of religious nuts
-saturated superficiality and stupidity
-commercialized politics
-unpredictable taxation (fines, fees, permit costs, etc.)
-living under and hearing about the tyranny of home owner's associations
-shitty food choices in the middle of the night
-monolinguists
-muffin tops
-american football
-etc. etc. etc.

I'm just ready to start being bothered by another culture's problems. I'm fed up with this one.