Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[999969999]

Think about that for a minute. Here is someone who has lived in (in my opinion) the best country in the world, with the highest standard of living, and yet he wants to destroy it. People from all over the world want to come here, but it is not good enough for him.

That is the LEFT.

Outside of your fevered imagination, have you any proof that the US has the "highest standard of living" in the world?
According to the UN, unadjusted data ranks the US as 4th, adjusted for income inequality (a new factor used beginning in 2011), the US ranks 23rd.

Out of respect for j2k4 I'll not label you a conservative but you're certainly the poster boy for the modern day Republican party- all rhetoric, no facts.

Do you honestly think I would care what the U.N. thinks about our standard of living? They lie all the time and hate us. Why would I care about what they have to say about us?

But earlier you mentioned Sweden as a shining example of a socialist country with a high standard of living. I've been there with my family on several trips. While it is a nice place to visit, I was so happy to get back home after the vacation was over. I would not want to live there.

Let's take nearby Finland as a better example-- one which I am quite familiar with. I have relatives living in Lapland and Helsinki, and have visited them a number of times over the years. The ones in Helsinki have a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom home, similar to what we would call a "town house" and they are so proud of it. I love them dearly, and I am happy for them, but their place is tiny. We have 7 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms in our Eagar home (and my grandparents' home in Eugene, Oregon is even bigger!). And here's the other thing... they only have one tiny car! And they hardly ever use it! They use mainly public transportation to get around in the city. Almost every time they took me anywhere, we had to use public transportation and it was okay, but not nearly as nice as riding in a car and getting to your destination quickly. It took forever to get anywhere!

So no, I don't think they have as high of a standard of living as we do. I wouldn't want to live like that. Once again, nice place to visit, and I had a lot of fun with my cousins, etc., but I was so happy to get back home.

[mjmacky]

Let's take nearby Finland as a better example-- one which I am quite familiar with. I have relatives living in Lapland and Helsinki, and have visited them a number of times over the years.

What are you foreigners doing in America in the first place, go back to your own country.

Also, unsurprisingly, you seem to be confused about what standard of living even means. Do you even know what statistics are?

[999969999]

Let's take nearby Finland as a better example-- one which I am quite familiar with. I have relatives living in Lapland and Helsinki, and have visited them a number of times over the years.

What are you foreigners doing in America in the first place, go back to your own country.

I was born here.

Also, unsurprisingly, you seem to be confused about what standard of living even means. Do you even know what statistics are?

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Other coiners have therefore been proposed."

In my opinion, going there in person and seeing what it is like is far better than reading what someone at the U.N. had to say about our standard of living compared to various European nations.

[mjmacky]

What are you foreigners doing in America in the first place, go back to your own country.

I was born here.

Also, unsurprisingly, you seem to be confused about what standard of living even means. Do you even know what statistics are?

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Other coiners have therefore been proposed."

In my opinion, going there in person and seeing what it is like is far better than reading what someone at the U.N. had to say about our standard of living compared to various European nations.

While statistics can be used for driving a purpose of mal-intent, making blanking statements about the condition of society using personal anecdotes works with only the lowest of minds, and it's only good for amusement at best. So, try to dodge all you want, you won't be able to gather things like nations' standard of living without statistical analysis.

P.S. You're saying that you were an anchor baby?

[clocker]

But earlier you mentioned Sweden as a shining example of a socialist country with a high standard of living. I've been there with my family on several trips. While it is a nice place to visit, I was so happy to get back home after the vacation was over. I would not want to live there.
I hear a sigh of relief so audible it crossed the Atlantic. Sweden thanks you.

Let's take nearby Finland as a better example-- one which I am quite familiar with. I have relatives living in Lapland and Helsinki, and have visited them a number of times over the years. The ones in Helsinki have a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom home, similar to what we would call a "town house" and they are so proud of it. I love them dearly, and I am happy for them, but their place is tiny. We have 7 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms in our Eagar home (and my grandparents' home in Eugene, Oregon is even bigger!). And here's the other thing... they only have one tiny car! And they hardly ever use it! They use mainly public transportation to get around in the city. Almost every time they took me anywhere, we had to use public transportation and it was okay, but not nearly as nice as riding in a car and getting to your destination quickly. It took forever to get anywhere!

So no, I don't think they have as high of a standard of living as we do. I wouldn't want to live like that. Once again, nice place to visit, and I had a lot of fun with my cousins, etc., but I was so happy to get back home.

You conflate ostentatious consumerism with a high standard of living.
How many people live in your seven bedroom McMansion?
In your grandparents Versailles?

And gee, how stupid of the Finns to not be beholden to oil cartels by building and using public transportation.
They probably all secretly lust after Escalades, it's their damned socialist governments thwarting them.

[999969999]

For Comrade Macky:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxuBhemD3nk


Macky confirms most of what I have suspected about the Left:

He admits to being a member of a union.

He admits to being a socialist.

He admits to being an anarchist. [Chaos]

He is extremely arrogant-- thinks he knows more about cancer than the American Cancer Society.

He openly states that he wants to destroy the United States, it's capitalist system, and burn it down. [Chaos]


Think about that for a minute. Here is someone who has lived in (in my opinion) the best country in the world, with the highest standard of living, and yet he wants to destroy it. People from all over the world want to come here, but it is not good enough for him.

That is the LEFT.

Something tells me that any youtube you link without even a title hint would be something terribly uninteresting.

Also, you can call me left, but I prefer cardinal directions. The legal ignorants fear that the "left" is like me, when they're basically midpoint between myself and the "right". Socialist, check. Anarchist, check (not surprised you don't know what anarchy is). Arrogant, check, though I think it is universally obvious that I know a lot more about cancer than what you tried to understand from an American Cancer Society web page. Destroy the infidels, check.

Final quip. I don't understand the appeal of living in any one place for one's entire life. I'm not a fan of any government really, so once I'm finished with my business here, I intend to be a world resident not having to really bother myself with the long term political nuances of each. It's also odd that you would even consider to mention standard of living since it's a concept almost entirely contained in the "socialist" domain. Incidentally, countries with more socialist policies tend to yield higher standards of living, given that they have some kind of economic value (thus can afford to go into debt).

Thanks for your admission of guilt and thanks for proving my point.

You have made it quite clear that you are a traitor to our country. You hate our country and you want to destroy it.

The other Americans on this forum have had plenty of opportunities to voice their objections to your downright treasonous statements, and they act as if they do not recognize you as a threat to their very way of life, and yet if you had your way, you would destroy their country.

They have remained silent about it.

And the silence is deafening.

It also proves my point.

I know you are so arrogant and narcissistic that you think you know more about cancer than the American Cancer Society, but for the rest of the readers out there, here is the quote from the ACS.

"the immune system is much better at recognizing and attacking germs than cancer cells. Germs are very different from normal human cells and are often easily seen as foreign, but cancer cells and normal cells have fewer clear differences. Because of this the immune system may not always recognize cancer cells as foreign. Cancer cells are less like soldiers of an invading army and more like traitors within the ranks of the human cell population."

On a much larger scale, the t.v. news media is supposed to act as our immune system, and not sweep anything under the carpet. If they had done their job, Obama would have never been elected. He had almost no experience, and the only work experience he had outside of government jobs was at ACORN which should have been investigated extensively, and they should have also investigated the people with whom he associated, such as Rev. Wright, the Nation of Islam, etc. If the average American had been aware of these facts back then, I don't think he would have even made it through the primary. If the media had been fair, and treated him the way they treat Republicans and conservatives, they would have quickly made his run for the White House a losing proposition. But what do I expect? Look how the Nobel Peace Prize treated him?! They gave him the award eventhough he didn't earn it, in anticipation of what he might do someday in the future. They made a mockery of their own organization. It was a purely political move. They were all bending over backwards to kiss his feet.

And I know you are afraid to click on the youtube link of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer is a communist, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxuBhemD3nk
, so I will simply tell you what it is says: "This guy's a commie... traitor to our country!" Seinfeld was on television originally in the 1990s, and it is interesting to see how different their response back then is from our response today. Being called a commie is not such a big deal now. They have done a great job of infiltrating our schools, our media, and now even the highest levels of our government. As it turns out, McCarthy may have been right all along.

What is weird is why would we even want to try such a thing here when it has failed or is in the process of failing in every country it has ever been tried. The only reason some of the western European nations have been able to keep their socialist-lite governments functioning is because we acted as their military (they knew we would step in to defend them from any Russian invasion), so the money they saved on not having a huge military was free to use on their expensive social programs. If we ever closed down our bases in Europe and left NATO and the UN, they would have to fend for themselves, and suddenly they would find out that having all those social programs was simply too expensive to be sustainable, and they would probably abandon them

It is interesting to point out that the ones who are the least socialistic of the European countries, the Germans, are also the most industrious and in the best shape financially. Think about it. You see German cars everyday. How often do you see French cars around here? And the French are in serious financial trouble, too. Not as bad as Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece, but not nearly as good as Germany. The Germans are cutting back and getting their fiscal house in order. We could learn something from them. But then, I am a bit biased when it comes to the Germans. Hey, at least I admit it!

Now back to the public employee labor unions in Scranton, PA; Stockton, CA; and San Bernardino, CA. They aren't like the federal government. They can't simply print their way out of this mess. When the economy was going through its bubble inflation period, and times were good, the labor unions got too greedy and started jumping up their wages, benefits, and pensions. The hapless government officials didn't give a damn about the money. Why should they care? It's not their money. It's the taxpayers' money. So, they gave in to the unions' outrageous demands. Then bubble burst, and tax revenues fell. Suddenly the very highly paid union workers were being paid more than these cities could take in, and since they can't get away with running a deficit and borrowing more and more money-- like the feds-- they had to make huge cuts in spending. The unions refused to negotiate, so they left them no choice but to file bankruptcy.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. This will happen in every city which has been foolish with its money and allowed the unions to run the show. The good thing about this is that it will open some average Americans' eyes to the problems of letting a politician bargain with a union using taxpayer money. It's one thing if a business voluntarily decides that it wants to bargain with a union (although I would never do such a thing) using its own money. It is quite another thing when a politician uses taxpayers' money to bargain with a union. Right To Work laws need to passed in every state, and there need to be laws which specifically state that public employee unions are forbidden from state and local government jobs. There was recently a bus strike in Arizona-- a right to work state-- and the democrat mayor did nothing about it. He should have told them that anyone who strikes will be fired and replaced with non-union bus drivers, and then immediately start a training program for non-union bus drivers. He would have been swamped with applicants due to the high unemployment rate. And yes, for a few weeks there would be no bus service while the new drivers were trained. But after that, this would never happen again. We need to get some strong politicians with some back bones who will fire these people and replace them with non-union employees.

[clocker]

As it turns out, McCarthy may have been right all along.

No, he wasn't then nor are you now.
I'm guessing you think Michele Bachmann is a brave truth teller too.

It'd be hilarious to see your reaction should you ever be forced to live in the world for which you so stridently advocate.

[mjmacky]

He doesn't understand the clear concise points I make, what hope is there of him understanding the considerably longer C&P content he posts?

[clocker]

Have you ever read one of those in it's entirety?
Not this singular medical/cancer nonsense but the political ones.

Invariably they begin with some outlandish statement (which 9 will claim to be "thinking about"), followed by twenty paragraphs of increasingly irrelevant and fanciful "proof".
This format is convenient in that it allows posters like 9 to ignore the bulk of the cut/paste text because meaning isn't their raison d'être, they are deployed as alphabetical artillery.
Precision and accuracy matter little when the plan is to carpet bomb the entire conversation.

[999969999]

So? No comments about the cities in California and Pennsylvania going bankrupt due to the outrageous pay and benefits of their union employees.

Do you see the writing on the wall, Comrade Macky?

Eventually, your pay and benefits might get slashed as well.

It's another nail in the coffin of public employee unions. It is just a matter of time before the average American wakes up and sees what your unions have been doing with their tax money.

I hope that at a certain point, the average American will respond the way the citizens of Bell, California did in 2010:

Hundreds of residents of one of the poorest municipalities in Los Angeles County shouted in protest last night as tensions rose over a report that the city’s manager earns an annual salary of almost $800,000.

An overflow crowd packed a City Council meeting in Bell, a mostly Hispanic city of 38,000 about 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles, to call for the resignation of Mayor Oscar Hernandez and other city officials. Residents left standing outside the chamber banged on the doors and shouted “fuera,” or “get out” in Spanish.

It was the first council meeting since the Los Angeles Times reported July 15 that Chief Administrative Officer Robert Rizzo earns $787,637 -- with annual 12 percent raises -- and that Bell pays its police chief $457,000, more than Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck makes in a city of 3.8 million people. Bell council members earn almost $100,000 for part-time work.

City Attorney Edward Lee said the council members couldn’t discuss salaries in public without advance notice. The council then adjourned for a private session. About an hour later, the council members returned, and Hernandez read a statement saying the city would prepare a report on the salaries and seek public comment at the next council meeting, scheduled for Aug. 16.

Residents shouted in protest. Lee said he would have the room cleared if people continued to speak out of line. Police Chief Randy Adams said the fire department wanted to end the meeting because the crowd outside was blocking the door.
Easing Tensions

Then, in what appeared to be an effort to ease tensions, Hernandez announced that the meeting to discuss salaries would be held instead on July 26.

After the meeting, Bell resident Ali Saleh read a statement from a newly formed group called the Bell Association to Stop the Abuse. He called for an independent audit of city salaries and contracts.

On July 1 Bell took control of many of the city functions of neighboring Maywood, a city whose council members voted to contract out almost all services. Saleh also asked that Bell stop that process until the city’s salary investigations were resolved.

Bell has sold two general obligation bond issues totaling $50 million in the past six years, according to prospectuses for the bonds and information in the city’s annual financial statement for 2009. In that time, its debt has risen to $1,972 per capita in 2009 from $599 in 2004, according to its annual financial statement.
Inquiry Under Way

The city’s personal income was $24,800 per capita in 2008, according to its financial statement. That compares with an average of $32,819 nationwide, according to 2010 figures from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Bell’s general fund revenue declined 4.6 percent to $14.1 million for the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2009, according to the city’s financial statement. The city’s expenses rose 2.3 percent to $15.9 million in same period.

The Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office has begun an inquiry into Bell council member pay, according to Dave Demerjian, head of the office’s Public Integrity Division. He said Bell council members were receiving $8,083 a month, mostly by serving on city-related commissions.

“We’re reviewing the council member salaries to see if they conform to state law,” Demerjian said in a telephone interview.

California law limits the salaries of council members to several hundred dollars a month, depending on the size of the city, according to Hector De La Torre, a state assemblyman from nearby South Gate, who sponsored legislation in 2005 that limits how much council members can get paid from other city-related assignments to $150 a month.
‘Obscene Pay’

De La Torre said that after his bill was passed, Bell’s City Council voted to operate under its own charter, rather than adhere to state laws on how cities should be run.

“It seems obscene to me,” De La Torre said in a telephone interview. “People making $30,000 a year are paying taxes so that their council members can make $80,000.”

Adams, Bell’s police chief, said in an interview after the council meeting that he had retired as chief of police in the much larger city of Glendale, California, when Bell officials approached him.

“I told them they would have to pay me what I was making in retirement and the $165,000 I would make as chief of police,” Adams said.

Adams said he had been brought in to end corruption in Bell’s police department.

“Some of the former members of this force are in the federal penitentiary,” he said.
‘Streets Are Cleaner’

Hernandez, the mayor, defended the salaries in an interview with the Los Angeles Times.

“Our streets are cleaner, we have lovely parks, better lighting throughout the area, our community is better,” Hernandez said, according to the newspaper. “These things just don’t happen, they happen because he had a vision and made it happen.”

Carmen Avalos, the city clerk in South Gate, said she attended the Bell council meeting to help educate people about the political process.

“This is what we are trying to avoid,” she said in an interview at the meeting. “The lack of fiduciary responsibility, the lack of transparency.”