Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[devilsadvocate]

9 simply lacks the experience to view issues through different frameworks.

Nearly everything he posts is almost verbatim of any generic talk radio host or blogger on any given day. I don't have an issue with that, but he does often lack the ability or will to explain the thinking behind his statements.
I still haven't made up my mind about him. Is he what we see or is he a parody?

[j2k4]

As the truism says, "Republicans believe that government is bad and they get elected so they can prove it".

I always thought that line was downright clever, however stale and - I mean, once everyone's heard it...ten times...in a day...

[clocker]

Kev, it bears repeating because it's true.

[megabyteme]

Is he what we see or is he a parody?

I often think he's a parody. Which works out nicely for the board, since J2 seldom has anyone else to side with him.

[clocker]

I often think he's a parody. Which works out nicely for the board, since J2 seldom has anyone else to side with him.

It's unclear if j2 is "on his side" or not.
In fact, it's hard to tell what side Kev is on lately...he's been unusually vague of late.

[999969999]

9 simply lacks the experience to view issues through different frameworks.
For instance:
-The right would prefer that a Wisconsin worker look at his union peers and say, "Heath insurance? Benefits and pension? I don't have that, why should they?"

Yes, I admit that I do feel this way.


-The left would have them ask, "Heath insurance? Benefits and pension? I want that too, how can I get them?"

Why can't people be expected to pay for their own health insurance and save for their own retirement? Go back to the 1800s and when people got sick, they either paid for a doctor to see them or did without healthcare alltogether. And that gave them an incentive to take care of their own health-- eat right, stay in shape, or die. Fast forward to today and we got all these fucking lardasses who are too lazy to exercise, and they eat like pigs, and then get fat and then get sick, and then want everyone to pay for their illnesses. I'm sorry, but I'm not responsible for what they did and I refuse to pay for their mistakes. If they knew there was no safety net, maybe they would take better care of themselves. And they used to have to save up for their latter years or face starvation or move in with their kids. That gave them an incentive to save back some money.


The right's obsession with deficits (which is a problem they created...the national debt grew greatest under Republican rule) is presented as a totally black>white, cut-n-dried proposition...we spend more than we take in, therefore we can only respond by cutting services to save money.
Somehow the obvious second option- we spend more than we take in, so let's take in more- is never proposed.

Do you want to pay more taxes? I don't.

For all the Chicken Little histrionics over taxes, the fact is that we are paying the lowest effective tax rate since the 1950's.
The problem is that the taxes we pay don't result in tangible benefits for the average American (and that Republicans don't believe that corporations should pay taxes at all).
We used to get nice things like the Interstate Highway System and Hoover Dam and libraries and water treatment plants...stuff you could see and that enhanced the quality of your life.

Republicans prefer to spend taxes on projecting our military into the world.
Remove Iraq and Afghanistan from our spending and the "deficit problem" disappears.

I agree with you. I would like to cut military spending down to a merely defensive posture. Close all the foreign bases, and just protect the United States.

Another Republican tactic relies on insulating their core supporters from the effects of their stated beliefs.
Note that every Republican warns of the horrible drain on the budget by "entitlements"- Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid- and how we must "tighten our belts" and "make sacrifices".

I would make those cuts and eliminate all of these entitlements-- Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid-- imagine all of them gone! We could balance the budget easily.

Yeah, everybody has to chip in...except those already receiving the largess, mostly older, white folks, the very core of the Republican base.
They get to keep theirs, which makes it a lot easier to say "fuck you" to everyone else.
Be interesting to confront the typical Tea Party rabble and say, "Yup, SS, Medicare and Medicaid are killing us financially so we're all going to lose 15% of our benefits immediately, we're going to restrict access to health providers and we're going to phase the whole system down.
Starting NOW.
For EVERYBODY".

<crickets>

As the truism says, "Republicans believe that government is bad and they get elected so they can prove it".

...

[999969999]

9 simply lacks the experience to view issues through different frameworks.

Nearly everything he posts is almost verbatim of any generic talk radio host or blogger on any given day. I don't have an issue with that, but he does often lack the ability or will to explain the thinking behind his statements.
I still haven't made up my mind about him. Is he what we see or is he a parody?

You just can't imagine someone having a different opinion than you, can you?

I would say that some of my opinions are quite different from those of talk radio--

1. I don't like military spending. I hate all wars. I think most of the wars we've been in since the Civil War was a mistake. I wish we had never gotten involved in World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and all of the various Persian Gulf Wars, including Iraq and Afghanistan. Think how much money we have wasted and how many lives we have lost on all of these wars? I should start a new thread about how stupid it was to ever get involved in any of these wars.

2. I no longer support Israel. We should cut them loose, and cut our losses, and maybe it would make the Islamic world a little bit less likely to continue attacking us.

3. I don't support any entitlement programs. They should all come to an end.

4. I don't support free trade. It should come to an end. We should use tariffs to stop China and various other nations from dumping their cheaply made, crappy products onto our markets and destroying our manufacturing base.

5. I am not religious.

And there are other issues, but those are just a few positions that you are unlikely to hear on talk radio.

[clocker]

Why can't people be expected to pay for their own health insurance and save for their own retirement?

They do/did pay for their own health insurance and retirement benefits.
The union members accepted lower pay in exchange for these payoffs.
You want people to pay out of pocket for these things, fine.
Pay enough wages so they can afford to.
Problem solved.

Go back to the 1800s and when people got sick, they either paid for a doctor to see them or did without healthcare alltogether. And that gave them an incentive to take care of their own health-- eat right, stay in shape, or die.

There is no direct "apples to apples" comparison between today and the 1800's.
Even if there were, I guarantee that YOU wouldn't want to live like that.

Fast forward to today and we got all these fucking lardasses who are too lazy to exercise, and they eat like pigs, and then get fat and then get sick, and then want everyone to pay for their illnesses. I'm sorry, but I'm not responsible for what they did and I refuse to pay for their mistakes. If they knew there was no safety net, maybe they would take better care of themselves. And they used to have to save up for their latter years or face starvation or move in with their kids. That gave them an incentive to save back some money.

For someone who does not have to fend for himself, you certainly are a self-righteous little snot.

[999969999]

They do/did pay for their own health insurance and retirement benefits.
The union members accepted lower pay in exchange for these payoffs.
You want people to pay out of pocket for these things, fine.
Pay enough wages so they can afford to.
Problem solved.

Go back to the 1800s and when people got sick, they either paid for a doctor to see them or did without healthcare alltogether. And that gave them an incentive to take care of their own health-- eat right, stay in shape, or die.

There is no direct "apples to apples" comparison between today and the 1800's.
Even if there were, I guarantee that YOU wouldn't want to live like that.

Fast forward to today and we got all these fucking lardasses who are too lazy to exercise, and they eat like pigs, and then get fat and then get sick, and then want everyone to pay for their illnesses. I'm sorry, but I'm not responsible for what they did and I refuse to pay for their mistakes. If they knew there was no safety net, maybe they would take better care of themselves. And they used to have to save up for their latter years or face starvation or move in with their kids. That gave them an incentive to save back some money.

For someone who does not have to fend for himself, you certainly are a self-righteous little snot.

Okay, but you have to admit that what I said is the truth. What else explains how fat America is becoming?

[clocker]

I admit no such thing.
How many Whole Foods stores do you see in poor neighborhoods?
How many bodegas carry fresh vegetables instead of Hostess Twinkies?
How much of our food is larded with HFCS and how much does the government subsidize it's production?

If all these "lardasses" are making such poor choices, how do you educate them to do better?
Nevermind, you don't believe in paying for education and it's much simpler to associate these problems with moral weakness than situation/ignorance.