Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[bigboab]

It looks like the artful dodging Democrats may have been outsmarted by the Republicans afterall, and the vote is moving forward to crush the public employee unions in Wisconsin.

If this works, the union control over the public sector will eventually come crashing down.

One I noticed in this thread is that no one wanted to deal with the fact that when it comes down to CHOICE-- the freedom to choose whether to belong to organized crime, er I mean a union, or not to belong to a union, liberals are against CHOICE.

The new law will let people decide whether to belong to a union or not, and whether or not to pay their union dues rather than having the union dues come out of their paychecks. CHOICE! What an evil thing!

What would you do if you found out that someone where you worked was getting double the pay for doing the same job a you? You go to the employer and he/she says take it or leave it. If there is a lot of unemployment, then you take it but your heart is not in the job anymore. A good union ensures equality in pay and conditions. When unions create beTter pay and conditions for employees there is no outcry from non union members asking the employer not to apply these better condition to them.

What about employers unions\federations where ground rules for treament of employees are laid down. Not much choice for the employees there either.

[Skiz]

What would you do if you found out that someone where you worked was getting double the pay for doing the same job a you? You go to the employer and he/she says take it or leave it. If there is a lot of unemployment, then you take it but your heart is not in the job anymore. A good union ensures equality in pay and conditions. When unions create beTter pay and conditions for employees there is no outcry from non union members asking the employer not to apply these better condition to them.

How about those employees that work their butts off, only to be paid the same as some slack-ass union "brother"?

I've worked at a company for the past 12 years that has a strong union presence. The Teamsters to be specific. I could sit here and 'talk' for hours about how the union inhibits the progress of the company. One of the largest ways is by making it nearly impossible to terminate an employee as long as they just show up everyday; it's beyond ridiculous.

I was completely indifferent about unions prior to my current place of employ as I'd never dealt with them before, but it didn't take me long to learn that I didn't like them, as I was one of those employees that was enthusiastic and worked his butt off.

Unions enable the lazy guy.

[devilsadvocate]

There are reasonable and unreasonable union operators, just as there are reasonable and unreasonable legislators or employers.

I've never been a union member, I would probably disagree with a lot of their "demands", but in the land of the free I absolutely think that workers should have the freedom to pool together as a bargaining force without the kind government regulation that we would think unreasonable to place on business.

@skizo

What kind of healthcare do you get, would you say it's good or bad? If it's good, do you think it would so great if not for your union? What about pay? Is it better or worse than wages in comparable non union jobs? Is your company struggling to compete against non union companies? Would you say your company would employ more or less people if it weren't for the union (has the union suppressed downsizing?). How much vacation time do you get compared to non union companies? Do you get sick pay? Does your company train you or are you expected to train yourself in order to get a promotion to a different dept?

Overall do you think your employment from your own personal benefit would be better with or without union involvement in your company?

[Skiz]

There are reasonable and unreasonable union operators, just as there are reasonable and unreasonable legislators or employers.

I've never been a union member, I would probably disagree with a lot of their "demands", but in the land of the free I absolutely think that workers should have the freedom to pool together as a bargaining force without the kind government regulation that we would think unreasonable to place on business.

In this case the business was the government and I assure you your opinion of unions would be altered if you were required to base your business decisions around them each and every day. It's beyond frustrating to be handcuffed by unions regulations around every corner when you're trying to operate a successful business. Decisions that are simple and would otherwise be considered no-brainers become conflicted with seniority issues, stewards, and contractual obligations. It's horrible.

[megabyteme]

Are you managing union employees, but not a union member, skiz? If so, that is a VERY common frustration/tension. In such a situation, how does your pay and benefits compare to the union employees'?

[Skiz]

Correct. I am supervisor (management, non-union) who oversees hourly (union) employees.

In short, they don't compare.

Management employees pay for their health/dental/vision benefits much like the rest of the country does, but union employees get them free. 100%, absolutely free. Doesn't cost them even one cent a year, and they have no deductible.

Their pay is a set rate depending on the job and hire date. Those union employees often times get raises that outweigh that of their supervisors. For example, I have one employee that used to make about half of what I made, but his contractual raises over the past decade now has us earning approximately the same amount, meaning the employee will soon out-earn his boss. This isn't to say that I'm a slouch and haven't deserved a raise, it's that my company does not give raises to management which exceed 5%, so union employees are always catching up to or pulling further away in pay.

[devilsadvocate]

it's that my company does not give raises to management which exceed 5%, so union employees are always catching up to or pulling further away in pay.

Do you think that would be the case if you were in a union?

As a supervisor what do you actually generate by way of profit for the company?

[j2k4]

it's that my company does not give raises to management which exceed 5%, so union employees are always catching up to or pulling further away in pay.

Do you think that would be the case if you were in a union?

As a supervisor what do you actually generate by way of profit for the company?

Yeah, Skiz-

If you don't drive the truck, you're a drain on cash.

A Teamster's efficiency typically rises when working unsupervised.

[megabyteme]

Correct. I am supervisor (management, non-union) who oversees hourly (union) employees.

In short, they don't compare.

Management employees pay for their health/dental/vision benefits much like the rest of the country does, but union employees get them free. 100%, absolutely free. Doesn't cost them even one cent a year, and they have no deductible.

Their pay is a set rate depending on the job and hire date. Those union employees often times get raises that outweigh that of their supervisors. For example, I have one employee that used to make about half of what I made, but his contractual raises over the past decade now has us earning approximately the same amount, meaning the employee will soon out-earn his boss. This isn't to say that I'm a slouch and haven't deserved a raise, it's that my company does not give raises to management which exceed 5%, so union employees are always catching up to or pulling further away in pay.

I'm of the view that your pay should have increased at the same rate as your employees. The fact that it did not, and you are paying for your own health care is actually an argument why unions should exist. It isn't that they are getting such a good deal that the company cannot afford to offer better pay and benefits- you are not protected, so the company takes advantage of you.

[bigboab]

I am torn between both sides of this argument. I would say 80% of people want something done about public service pay and pensions. The other 20% are public servants. It now seems to be the practise in this country for public servants who do something wrong to be 'sacked'. their severance to include a massive 'payoff' plus a pension that the normal working person does not get for a wage. Something has to be done. It is our taxes that are paying for this. Refuse to pay those taxes and you go to jail(unlike big business).