Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[999969999]

Shut down dissent by personal attacks rather than trying to win the argument.

It's a bit difficult to tell what your "argument" is.

As I see it, you posit that privately owned, user subscribed (formerly) "public" services are superior to those supplied by the government.
You have also previously been a consistent advocate for removing regulation from business.

So, once you remove government from the equation we have FireFighters, Inc.- a private, for profit entity with no competition- as the sole source of protection.

And their incentive to provide comprehensive service at low cost is what, exactly?

BTW, 9...
Your new persona as the poor, abused , lone voice of conservatism is adorable.
It's a shame that the right wing agenda is so poorly covered in the media and your bravery, standing as the lone beacon of sanity in this rabidly liberal world , is edifying.

Well actually, it would be if you weren't wrong about pretty much everything.

So, Scottsdale is a rural area? Did you even look at the map? Have you ever been there?

Here it is again for you, in case you missed it.

http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1T4G...ed=0CCoQ8gEwAA
...

[clocker]

OK, I know where Scottsdale is.
Still not sure what the point is.

[999969999]

OK, I know where Scottsdale is.
Still not sure what the point is.

Remember, you brought it up originally...

9, the fact is, you don't have enough information to either "hate" or approve of unions.
90% of your posts are unfiltered Fox newspap and the remaining 10% are clueless in the extreme.

You wanna outsource government jobs, eh?
Say, turn the fire department over to the same folks who perform Comcast home service?
Good luck with that.

To which I replied that there is a private company which provides fire department service, to which the liberal anarchist replied

Yes, I want to outsource and privatize as many government jobs as possible. Hopefully it will help destroy what is left of the unions in this country. And as Rural Metro has shown, a private company can provide excellent fire protection and ambulance service at a reasonable cost. Consumers then have the right and freedom to choose whether or not they want to pay for that service and protection or just roll the dice and take their chances that they won't need to ever use it, and then deal with the consequences themselves.

The point that you missed here is that it can really only work in a sparsely populated rural environment. This wouldn't succeed in urban areas, especially in situations where many residential units are in very close proximity of each other. Whether it be a separate cost or built into the rent, the "private" costs would be extremely high. There would also be no margin of "opting" out as you propose. If you are at the point where you'd have the government managing pretty much nothing... it would seem that you are with me in idealizing a complete anarchist society. You can't just leave your foot halfway through the door.

And then I pointed out that, Scottsdale is not rural.

So, yes, government jobs can be done by the private sector, and it doesn't matter whether these are rural areas or urban areas like Scottsdale.

My point has been made and proven.

[megabyteme]

9's, are there any jobs you deem worthy of middle-class pay, benefits, and retirement? Some of us have to pay back the thousands of dollars (not to mention hard work) involved in earning our degrees... It would be nice to reep some kind of reward from your capitalist system.

[devilsadvocate]

So, yes, government jobs can be done by the private sector, and it doesn't matter whether these are rural areas or urban areas like Scottsdale.

My point has been made and proven.

Reading back I can't see anyone say that government jobs can't be done by the private sector. It does appear that the theory raised is that the private sector may not be as cheap or efficient and they are more likely to cut corners to keep profit margins up.

I have to ask some of our older British members if their gas/electricity/water bills went down up or remained pretty much the same when they were sold off to the private sector.

My personal experience when dealing with government to be honest has been very positive. Whenever I've had the occasion to converse with officialdom I've found the representative to be polite and responsive and my issues have been dealt with in good time.

With the private sector it's been a total crap shoot once they have my money.

[bigboab]

Private firms are the ruination of the British system. Trains dont run on time and cost a fortune despite being subsidised by the govenrment. The power companies are a laugh. Prices dont go up by a few percent they go up by 20 to 30%. The next one is muted at 25%.

My own experience of British Gas(private). could not produce a bill online for six months owing to 'computer problems'. Because I was online they could not give me a detailed bill on paper either. Their next hike is to be 25%.

My own experience of Scottish Power(private). I told them that their meter reader was only reading one instead of two meters(One for night time). They informed me that they knew what they were doing. One year later I received a masive bill for the unread meter. Do you want more?

Bus company(private). Takes off all the 'non profitable' routes, leaving people stranded in the rural community. If someone else starts a bus on these routes the company ensures that it has a bus in front of the new bus and reduces its fare on that route. When the new company 'gives up' they take their buses off again. The bus owner is one of the richest men in Scotland.


p.s. Britain is up to its ears in debt because of private firms. I understand most western countries are in the same boat. It was not nationalised companies that caused that predicament.

I have said this before, all utility services should be nationally owned. I have lived through private(pre 1948), public (1948 to 1980's), private since then. The post office is next to go private.

Summing up. Unless you have lived through both, you are only guessing which is best.

[clocker]

9's fondness for privatization might be sorely tested by results from his home state of Arizona.

In a nutshell, since outsourcing prisons the state has paid more per prisoner than when under government aegis.
Allowing the private contractors to cherry pick the prisoners- i.e., no longterm/high cost medical care prisoners- the private corps can show an easy profit and foist the "problem" prisoners off on the state.
In essence, they are adapting Castro's Mariel boatlift strategy as a profit enhancer.

Very clever of the private sector to try it, very stupid of Arizonans to buy it.

[megabyteme]

I don't particularly like the thought of prison being an enjoyable place, but I do suspect private companies, interested in turning as much profit as possible, would provide lower quality of food, medical, and educational services to the prisoners. Not all of these inmates are rapist pedophiles, and should receive a minimal level of care while serving their sentences.

I believe public utilities, education (k-12), prisons, postal, and others should remain in the hands of the government. Not everything needs to be reduced to the lowest possible cost. There is always a price to pay when you do so. Too many business owners are total scumbags. I don't want them operating everything. Government has its place- serving the public good.

[clocker]

The Post Office is already "private".

My biggest problem with private prisons is that they need an ever increasing population to remain profitable.
Where the "people" (in theory represented by the government) are better served by reducing criminality, private businesses in the prison industry
need more people to house...a clear conflict of interest.

Unsurprisingly, Arizona's insane immigration laws were heavily backed by private prison corporations who see a very profitable outcome
from the "reform".
If that doesn't pan out, expect littering to become a capital offense.

[999969999]

Oh, this is rich!

You guys are worried about the private sector being more expensive than public employees?

You really think the government will do a better job of being financially responsible than the private sector?

Here's how well the government does with our money...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/