Public Employee Unions Must Be Crushed !

[999969999]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/protestors-...ry?id=12947666

These people are ridiculous! They have job security, decent wages, excellent health and retirement benefits, and when they are asked to contribute a tiny amount of their wages to help pay for their benefits, so the state can balance its budget, they take to the streets and riot.

Their unions need to be crushed!

And the Democrats in their state government are such chickens, they can't stand to face a vote that they know they will lose because they are now outnumbered by Republicans, that they flee to another state to prevent the vote from going forward. Imagine the outrage if Republicans pulled a stunt like that?

[clocker]

The state(s) made promises and signed contracts.
They then proceeded to underpay the funds that were supposed to guarantee their promises.
So, how is this the fault of the unions?

[devilsadvocate]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/protestors-...ry?id=12947666

These people are ridiculous! They have job security, decent wages, excellent health and retirement benefits, and when they are asked to contribute a tiny amount of their wages to help pay for their benefits, so the state can balance its budget, they take to the streets and riot.

I think it's important to look at the actual reason for the protests and not a "point of view" version. ( it's becoming the anti union version of "they hate us for our freedoms"). As far as I'm aware there was a lot of give on the reduced benefits, the reason for the protests is the arbitrary doing away with collective bargaining. This has nothing to do with budget savings and everything to do with personal vendettas. It's worth noting that it only applied to certain unions. The police and firefighters unions that supported the governor in the elections are exempt.
To be fair the bill asks everyone but the legislator to take cuts. The state workers must take pay and benefit cuts and the wealthy must take a tax cut.

Their unions need to be crushed!

I've never been a union member, but I never understood what it is they are supposed to have done that's so evil. Is it workplace safety? improvement in worker conditions? Why shouldn't workers have the freedom to organize? Was there a major union problem with walkouts?

And the Democrats in their state government are such chickens, they can't stand to face a vote that they know they will lose because they are now outnumbered by Republicans, that they flee to another state to prevent the vote from going forward. Imagine the outrage if Republicans pulled a stunt like that?

This is the state version of the filibuster/cloture we have seen since Obama took power and to be honest I'm amazed the tea party people aren't happy about it as it's their dream of a government, or at least a legislative, shutdown.

I would have more respect for all these ideological cutbacks if the lawmakers led by example and started with their own pay and benefits.

[Snee]

People who aren't rich wanting a decent standard of living? Why I've never heard the like! The nerve.

[clocker]

The problems in Wisconsin are but the latest- and not surprisingly, the most obvious- attempts at breaking down the middle class even further.
Ever since Reagan- remember, one of his most famous moves was busting the air traffic controller union- it has been the desire of corporate America (and therefore a primary goal of the right) to completely disenfranchise the middle class and facilitate even faster transfer of wealth into the upper 1% of Americans.

We're not entering into class warfare, we've already lost the battle.

[megabyteme]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/protestors-...ry?id=12947666

These people are ridiculous! They have job security, decent wages, excellent health and retirement benefits, and when they are asked to contribute a tiny amount of their wages to help pay for their benefits, so the state can balance its budget, they take to the streets and riot.

Their unions need to be crushed!

And the Democrats in their state government are such chickens, they can't stand to face a vote that they know they will lose because they are now outnumbered by Republicans, that they flee to another state to prevent the vote from going forward. Imagine the outrage if Republicans pulled a stunt like that?

Spoken like someone who has never worked for someone like you.

[999969999]

Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with this?

The only way to bring deficit government spending down is to bust these unions so that the government can adjust the salary and benefits of its employees to get them back down to where spending matches revenue.

Private businesses can't just print more money or ask for more bailouts when revenues fall. They have to adjust their budgets and fire people and reduce the salaries of remaining employees until they can get back to where their income matches or exceeds their expenditures.

Why shouldn't government be expected to do the same thing?

Why should government employees expect to continue making more money than their private business counterparts, and have better health benefits and retirement benefits than their private counterparts?

A lot of the people who are protesting are teachers. I would love to see every state have a voucher system, where parents would be free to send their kids to private schools using the amount of money the state pays per pupil at public schools. It may not completely pay for a Catholic school education, but it would come close, and the parents could make up the difference and get a much better education for their kids than what the public schools currently offer.

Suddenly public schools would have to get off their asses and compete with Catholic schools for students.

That would solve most of our education problems with lousy teachers and lazy administrators.

Back to unions... as we can see with our current trade deficit, even private sector unions get wages and benefits so high that we can't compete with the rest of the world in manufacturing. We need to destroy all the unions-- both public and private-- and get rid of the E.P.A., get rid of the Sierra Club, and we could start bringing back a large amount of manufacturing jobs to this country.

[megabyteme]

Back to unions... as we can see with our current trade deficit, even private sector unions get wages and benefits so high that we can't compete with the rest of the world in manufacturing. We need to destroy all the unions-- both public and private-- and get rid of the E.P.A., get rid of the Sierra Club, and we could start bringing back a large amount of manufacturing jobs to this country.

I remember, not too long ago, you talking about how poor individuals could work hard, get educated, and succeed by getting better jobs. Now, you want to destroy those $30k/year jobs that require $100k in education to get. Without guaranteed (good) benefits, you aren't going to attract any good teachers to your already struggling public education system. Not to mention, vouchering away needed resources to private schools.

You are trying to balance budget by cutting one of the most sensitive, already stripped sectors. Teachers are not sinking the state(s) with their marginal salaries, and moderate benefits. Look elsewhere.

And unions (are supposed to) protect the "little guy" from broken promises, poor working conditions, and abuse. Without the unions, these teachers would have the option of abandoning their students, or eating the shit administrators want to feed them. Contracts are necessary because people/entities lie, cheat, and cut budgets.

[clocker]

Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with this?

The only way to bring deficit government spending down is to bust these unions so that the government can adjust the salary and benefits of its employees to get them back down to where spending matches revenue.

You know Spanky that what the bloviators of FoxNews aren't telling you is that Scott Walker created the Wisconsin budget deficit by giving away yet more corporate tax breaks and incentives.
He started with a budget SURPLUS.
Busting unions- which is exactly what this is all about- is NOT the only cure for deficit spending...raising corporate taxes would solve the problem.
Actually, turns out that 60% of all corporations in Wisconsin pay no taxes at all...perhaps just closing those loopholes would help, eh?

Of particular interest is the support shown the protesters by police and firemen, both explicitly and cynically excluded from the Rethug demands in an effort to turn the middle class upon itself and deflect scrutiny from the real actors.

9, you simply have a very feeble and malformed idea of what's going on here.

[999969999]

In an effort to have civil discourse, let's read what the horribly evil bill-- a bill so evil that Democrats don't want to even give the legislature (which was elected by the majority of voters, remember?) a chance to vote on it-- has to say...

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf

Hmmm... government workers will now have the freedom to choose whether or not they want to join a union, and rather than the union dues coming out of their paycheck, they have the freedom to choose whether or not they want to pay them. How evil! That is truly worthy of all these protests and shutting down the government and denying the voice of the majority of voters. Hmmm.... isn't that what representative government is all about? The majority of voters get to be represented and have their voices heard? Or is that only true when Democrats are in the majority?

It seems that the only time Democrats like freedom of choice is when it involves killing unborn children. That is somehow a good thing. But giving government workers the right to choose is horribly evil and must be stopped.