WEB DL downloads

**mjmacky** · 09-14-2011, 10:59 AM

Alright, the skinny summary:

HDTV:
Original source --> encoded to MPEG2 by networks --> captured by capper --> encoded using x264 by group

Web-DL:
Original source --> encoded to AVC by Apple (VC-1 by Microsoft/Amazon) --> stripped of DRM and packaged by group

Bluray Rip:
Original source --> encoded to AVC by production --> encoded using x264 by group

HDTV will always suffer a lot because of the lossy MPEG2 encoding. Web-DL has restricted settings using AVC encoder (e.g. Nero, or any other program inferior to x264), and restricted bitrate. Bluray discs also have restricted settings, but probably uses more bitrate than is necessary. So, the quality of Bluray rip depends on settings used by encoder, it will always be better than HDTV, but unless encoding for transparency, it will be comparable with Web-DL.

**hotshot6473** · 09-14-2011, 12:56 PM

Fixed that for you

Alright, the skinny summary:

HDTV:
Original source --> Either left untouched depending on cable company or reencoded to lower bitrate MPEG2 by cable company(Euro sources use AVC)--> captured by capper --> encoded using x264 by group

Web-DL:
Original source --> encoded to AVC by Apple (VC-1 by Microsoft/Amazon) --> stripped of DRM and packaged by group

Bluray Rip:
Original source --> encoded to AVC or VC1 by production --> encoded using x264 by group

HDTV will always suffer a lot because of the lossy MPEG2 encoding. Web-DL has restricted settings using AVC encoder and restricted bitrate. Bluray discs also have restricted settings, but sometimes uses too little bitrate(no such thing as using too much bitrate on a BD). So, the quality of Bluray rip depends on settings used by encoder, it will not always be better than HDTV,and it will always be miles better than Web-DL.

There are hundreds of examples in which a HDTV broadcast is better than a web-dl and there are few cases in which the HDTV movie broadcast (usually from a Euro source) is better than the BD because its sourced from a different master

So in summary every single thing you download is a complete crap shoot on quality until you compare all the sources and find the best one.

**mjmacky** · 09-14-2011, 01:59 PM

Would have been helpful if you highlighted what change you made. And yes, it is possible to use too much bitrate in ANY scenario. They usually just fill the disc, sometimes it might not be enough of a bitrate, sometimes it might be too little. However, seeing that they're ALL more easily compressible, I'd wager it leans more towards excess. The fact that it can be further compressed means there's wasted bits. This is also the problem with using licensed encoding software with restrictive settings.

However, in terms of how the scene releases, their bluray 720p encodes aren't the best possible, but they will always outshine HDTV encodes, which are pretty crappy looking in most cases (relative to source). The problem with Web-DL is that they used fixed sizes, which used to be a staunch scene rule. However, the current use of CRF depends on the nature of source so the HDTV quality will start to vary quite wildly. I can be sure that cases where HDTV resembles source more closely than either Web-DL or Bluray are few and far between. Simply saying they're better opens up to subjective interpretation, e.g. Apple's encodes can be described as faded or you can say the HDTV encodes look a little saturated.

**Polarbear** · 09-14-2011, 02:34 PM

They became very popular. The iTunes version of recent Breaking Bad episodes is downloaded more than than TV caps on HDBits, where most iTunes releases have their origin. Even if the scene releases show up earlier.

You know why? Because the iTunes version kicks any HDTV cappers ass!

HDTV Capture (4.15 GB (11.70Mbps) MPEG-2) vs. iTunes (1.45 GB H.264)

**hotshot6473** · 09-14-2011, 02:37 PM

Yes that is one of the cases where web-dl is better but that is because AMC uses a very low bitrate
It just depends on the show

Scene is always going to be horrible. The only time its justifable to download scene for me is when they release a TV show on BD since it takes good encodes a long time to come out and they are generally much better than the caps or web-dls

As for the bitrate on full BDs they should fill the disc as much as humanly possible with only the movie and no other extras. What usually happens is a good 10,000 Mbps or more is lost due to useless extras and additional languages. The more bitrate used the less the AVC or VC1 compression can block the video

**mjmacky** · 09-14-2011, 11:41 PM

Point to be made was that the bitrate used on BD is a bit arbitrary since the resolution is at 1080p. You would have to get to higher resolutions before it starts to lose any significant detail at those bitrates. Encoding with differential frames will always introduce detail inaccuracies, but at the bitrates used, BD detail loss has to be virtually negligible. I really would like to compare these with masters, but alas I cannot. The other note is, yes, they could introduce different filters and other alteration while authoring from master, which could be different from the way it's aired on TV. The assessment of those changes though are still personal preference (I personally hate artificial grain).

AMC HD does a shit job, NBC HD tends to look a little better, but they're still using MPEG2 (fidelity requiring at times much greater bit rates @ 1080p than even Bluray standard would allow).

Could you please link a sample where HDTV is preferable over either Web-DL or BR rip? I would like to see for myself.