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Thread: Trump calls it quits

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post

    Without any proofs, I'm going to say we'd be at least as far, perhaps farther.
    I appreciate there is no way of knowing, but how do you come to this theory?

    re- "at least as far". Where would the funding and incentive have come from to have been able to keep pace?


    re- "perhaps farther". What about the funding from government and private insurance paying for treatments most couldn't dream of funding for themselves could possibly have hindered advancement?

    You see my theory is that government and private insurance funding has made inovation profitable enough for innovation investment to be viable as far as technology is concerned and government funding has made research into disease, cause and treatment, possible. without that funding medical research would probably be profitable enough to produce treatments like viagra. Pharmaceutical companies tend to only invest their own money in competing drugs for ones already on the market. Nearly all new cures are from government funded research.
    Last edited by devilsadvocate; 05-30-2011 at 08:29 PM.
    When I was a kid I was told "We do these things not because they're easy, but because they're hard"

    Now all I hear is " I won't do anything unless there's something in it for me"

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilsadvocate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post

    Without any proofs, I'm going to say we'd be at least as far, perhaps farther.
    I appreciate there is no way of knowing, but how do you come to this theory?

    re- "at least as far". Where would the funding and incentive have come from to have been able to keep pace?


    re- "perhaps farther". What about the funding from government and private insurance paying for treatments most couldn't dream of funding for themselves could possibly have hindered advancement?

    You see my theory is that government and private insurance funding has made inovation profitable enough for innovation investment to be viable as far as technology is concerned and government funding has made research into disease, cause and treatment, possible. without that funding medical research would probably be profitable enough to produce treatments like viagra. Pharmaceutical companies tend to only invest their own money in competing drugs for ones already on the market. Nearly all new cures are from government funded research.
    Call it a wild-ass guess, I don't care - it's my read, and I'm entitled to it.

    If you want to worry me about it, take your own guess and I'll question that.

    Btw - that last bit of yours?

    Tell me more, why don't you.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Btw - that last bit of yours?

    Tell me more, why don't you.
    NIH and CDC funding, similar benefactors around the world as well.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmacky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Btw - that last bit of yours?

    Tell me more, why don't you.
    NIH and CDC funding, similar benefactors around the world as well.
    Ah, there's certainly more to that, isn't there.

    A bit fussed for time, just now...
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

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    Of course it isn't so simple, I just didn't want to get into it, seems like to much effort

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmacky View Post
    Of course it isn't so simple, I just didn't want to get into it, seems like to much effort
    I agree 1000%; to make an honest case for the G is an awfully elastic proposition.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #27
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    I love making lengthy arguments, but only when I can do it with some conviction, and perhaps there's some passion in it. In this case, I both appreciate and hate our system for funding research. It is mostly publicly funded, but I have lost respect for that system. Disease and health research has been made possible because of it, but typically you need to sell your research with some novelty to get funded. The way around that is to think of some novel bullshit, get funded, and use the money to fund the more pragmatic studies in addition to meeting your grant requirements for the original proposal.

    NIH, CDC, NSF (MRC in UK), all government funding agencies. The NIH is the biggest funding entity for medical research worldwide. There are many private corporate funding sources, but the rewards are smaller when they fund externally. These companies can put their own money into R&D, but they often try to get government funding (not only for the free money, but also for the status). They have a profit motive though, and most critical medical research doesn't revolve around profitable ventures. Case in point, pharmaceutical research is a factor when accounting for private funding (and the numbers are significant). It would take a hell of a lot of accounting and perspective to find out how much of it is useful. Even if that effort was undertaken, it's subject to major criticism, as everyone states their research is important (publicly). I do believe everyone could agree that working on a purely profit motive though would obviously be detrimental in advancing medical/scientific understanding. We would need all kinds of crises just to get anywhere useful.

    So that's about as short as I could make it, didn't have enough time to make it shorter...
    Last edited by mjmacky; 06-01-2011 at 03:31 AM. Reason: misspelled significant

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmacky View Post
    I love making lengthy arguments, but only when I can do it with some conviction, and perhaps there's some passion in it. In this case, I both appreciate and hate our system for funding research. It is mostly publicly funded, but I have lost respect for that system. Disease and health research has been made possible because of it, but typically you need to sell your research with some novelty to get funded. The way around that is to think of some novel bullshit, get funded, and use the money to fund the more pragmatic studies in addition to meeting your grant requirements for the original proposal.

    NIH, CDC, NSF (MRC in UK), all government funding agencies. The NIH is the biggest funding entity for medical research worldwide. There are many private corporate funding sources, but the rewards are smaller when they fund externally. These companies can put their own money into R&D, but they often try to get government funding (not only for the free money, but also for the status). They have a profit motive though, and most critical medical research doesn't revolve around profitable ventures. Case in point, pharmaceutical research is a factor when accounting for private funding (and the numbers are significant). It would take a hell of a lot of accounting and perspective to find out how much of it is useful. Even if that effort was undertaken, it's subject to major criticism, as everyone states their research is important (publicly). I do believe everyone could agree that working on a purely profit motive though would obviously be detrimental in advancing medical/scientific understanding. We would need all kinds of crises just to get anywhere useful.

    So that's about as short as I could make it, didn't have enough time to make it shorter...
    Again, as you say, it doesn't pay to get hip-deep in something difficult-to-finish.

    For me, the research end of it goes awry when the war is over, and the benefits of a purpose-driven and highly-directed effort are lost/misplaced in the ensuing battle to maintain the sinecure.

    Well - we're only human, aren't we, but the problem now is we can't summon a decent effort, even while we are fighting a couple of wars.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #29
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    Is anyone really surprised that Donald Trump won't be your next president? Really?

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #30
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    Jon Stewart rails into Trump's failed attempt to host Palin as a New Yorker on Wednesday's Daily Show (01 June 2011). It's fucking hilarious.

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