Maccas staff member bashes the shit out of a customer

[megabyteme]

Like I say, I'd love to see where these 'assumptions' are founded...

I do know what it would look like if either one of them had tried to get away. The action would be panning hard left towards the door. They stayed and tried to get up. Is that the direction you would chose if you wanted to stop fighting?

[iLOVENZB]

I dunno but after watching that video I was left with an uncontrollable desire to beat iLOVENZB.

[Burnsy]

Like I say, I'd love to see where these 'assumptions' are founded...

I do know what it would look like if either one of them had tried to get away. The action would be panning hard left towards the door. They stayed and tried to get up. Is that the direction you would chose if you wanted to stop fighting?

They stayed? How do you know? It could be counter argued they weren't allowed to move, surely?
They would have panned left? Really? With 2 other staff members blocking their route, either intentionally or unintentionally...

Again, this seems to be another assumption... to my mind, the person with the mobile phone can see just as little as the rest of us viewing the clip, which does pan left towards the exit but as everything is happening under the counter it would seem we are left to use our over active imaginations. Why does it pan left? I have no idea... like I said before, I can't see anything.

I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong... but there are certainly assumptions being made without any under-pinning proof one way or another.

Did the girls deserve to be taught a lesson? Too right they did...
Did the guy with the metal bar go a bit over the top? IMO he did a bit, but in saying that, he only did if the immediate threat had been removed... and had it? Well we don't know for definite one way or another, and everything else is just opinion that cannot be based on any fact gleaned from the clip.

[megabyteme]

I still think the true injustice is how the corporation and the franchisee immediately fired, and condemned the employee. He was entirely disposable- right, or wrong. Didn't really matter.

[Burnsy]

I still think the true injustice is how the corporation and the franchisee immediately fired, and condemned the employee. He was entirely disposable- right, or wrong. Didn't really matter.

I'm assuming this is going to court (I didn't actually read the news report, just watched the video), so the outcome will probably have some bearing on where he stands for wrongful dismissal... if he was indeed just defending himself, was proportional in the force he used, and was only exercising (and what I'm assuming is constitutionally protected) his inherent right of self defence, then he should have a case against McDonald's.

[teflon05]

First off, I'm all for one defending themselves when threatened, But I definitely believe this guy went over the top. The reason being, neither of the women had a weapon.
While it's true one of them did slap him, his downfall is going to be that he used a weapon on them when they were (apparently) unarmed. Had he just punched them a few times, he probably wouldn't have a problem (although he probably still would have been fired.)
When this goes to court, all the jury is going to see, is a man striking two unarmed women with what looks like a metal rod, repeatedly, even after they were on the floor. As far as their intentions when rising goes, after being slammed in the head a few times with that rod, there's a good chance they just wanted to get away. Shit, they might have not even known where they were after that.
At least, that's what I believe a jury will see, but who knows?

[mjmacky]

It wouldn't be a hard defense to muster for the former employee. Also recall that once attacked and pursued, the ability to make rational decisions and metered response go pretty much out the window. In fact, I'd make the case that it was quite commendable that he took a break from beating them when they remained down.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but could it not then be argued on the flip side, that the breaks in the beating were in fact pre-meditated attempts to study the situation and inflict the maximum possible damage, which might not be possible when the "ability to make rational decisions and metered response go pretty much out the window", and just randomly swinging in self defence?

Well, that's really faulty given that he didn't start swinging again until she started standing up, way too easily to be construed as a threat since they were the aggressors.

I had to watch the video again to make sure the 'evidence' is not in conflict with my point. An advertisement popped up, how I wished it was a McDonald's advertisement.

Also, every time I see the video, I really want to beat the fat blond to a pulp, it's so fucking irritating.

[mjmacky]

While it's true one of them did slap him, his downfall is going to be that he used a weapon on them when they were (apparently) unarmed. Had he just punched them a few times, he probably wouldn't have a problem (although he probably still would have been fired.)

I found that a bit cowardly as well, but what if this is in a neighborhood where you have every reason to believe they've got weapons on them? Or that they just look like shady people likely to produce one. Being that the two women were the aggressors, and he was forced to retreat, I think the jury will find him to be acting only in terms of defense.

[Burnsy]

Well, that's really faulty given that he didn't start swinging again until she started standing up

So is it not possible he could have used the time to have a think about where he would strike again should they continue to pose a threat?

way too easily to be construed as a threat since they were the aggressors.

Agreed, but can you say with 100% certainty they were still being the aggressors and not trying to escape? They had just been knocked about the place with a metal-pole-type-thing...

Also, every time I see the video, I really want to beat the fat blond to a pulp, it's so fucking irritating.

You won't get any argument from me there

While it's true one of them did slap him, his downfall is going to be that he used a weapon on them when they were (apparently) unarmed. Had he just punched them a few times, he probably wouldn't have a problem (although he probably still would have been fired.)

I'm with teflon05 on this one...

[mjmacky]

So is it not possible he could have used the time to have a think about where he would strike again should they continue to pose a threat?

Agreed, but can you say with 100% certainty they were still being the aggressors and not trying to escape? They had just been knocked about the place with a metal-pole-type-thing...

About these points, the reason I made them in the context of court defense is because no one even needs to aver it 100 %. They cast very reasonable doubts. The only thing needed to establish with undeniable certainty would be his guilt and with that the intention to do both women harm with no regards to his personal safety. If those were white women, for sure he'd be convicted.