Love or Logic

**Squeamous** · 11-25-2011, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by manker

N'awwh. You replied to everyone in every thread.
You great big bucket of parma violets, you

===

£4000 for a door seems ridiculous. Like wtf.
Unless I've misunderstood something when you said you had to buy one 5th of it.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that councils move very slowly. Pay them small amounts but often and If you write them enough very eloquent but completely obtuse letters, it'll take ages before they set the dawgs on you. Months before they send anything to their collection dept, and that's if you don't interact with them at all. It'll take a year if you do.

I know I sound flippant, don't wanna teach you how to suck eggs, but I have lots of hints for warding off evil money collecting civil servants.
Part of my jawb description in these tuff times

No I meant I'll get about £150 spent on me at Xmas, and I'll put that towards the door.
That's all actually very helpful. I suspected as much, given the previous owner was still paying service charges several years old when I moved in. Also, when I asked what the deadline for door replacement was the woman on the phone seemed a bit surprised and said something vague like 'the first quarter of the year'. But you know, things don't get done without deadlines you fuckwit, don't they understand?

I was going to get my door looked at independently, since they seem to have made their judgement just by looking at the outside of it. I was also going to ask the CAB or the Which magazine legal dept about the legality of it since I have a deed of variation excluding my doors and windows from council responsibility. If you have any tips you'd care to impart they'd be gratefully received, or perhaps I'll make you rue the day you offered at a later date

**Biggles** · 11-25-2011, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Squeamous

Originally Posted by manker

N'awwh. You replied to everyone in every thread.
You great big bucket of parma violets, you

===

£4000 for a door seems ridiculous. Like wtf.
Unless I've misunderstood something when you said you had to buy one 5th of it.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that councils move very slowly. Pay them small amounts but often and If you write them enough very eloquent but completely obtuse letters, it'll take ages before they set the dawgs on you. Months before they send anything to their collection dept, and that's if you don't interact with them at all. It'll take a year if you do.

I know I sound flippant, don't wanna teach you how to suck eggs, but I have lots of hints for warding off evil money collecting civil servants.
Part of my jawb description in these tuff times

No I meant I'll get about £150 spent on me at Xmas, and I'll put that towards the door.
That's all actually very helpful. I suspected as much, given the previous owner was still paying service charges several years old when I moved in. Also, when I asked what the deadline for door replacement was the woman on the phone seemed a bit surprised and said something vague like 'the first quarter of the year'. But you know, things don't get done without deadlines you fuckwit, don't they understand?

I was going to get my door looked at independently, since they seem to have made their judgement just by looking at the outside of it. I was also going to ask the CAB or the Which magazine legal dept about the legality of it since I have a deed of variation excluding my doors and windows from council responsibility. If you have any tips you'd care to impart they'd be gratefully received, or perhaps I'll make you rue the day you offered at a later date

1st quarter of the calendar year or first quarter of the financial year? You could spin this out to June

The fire regulation thing seems totally mental - how often fires spread from one house to another via the front door

**NotLettingItGo** · 11-25-2011, 09:30 PM

If your house has had new uPVC doors fitted they will have undoubtedly come with some kind of certification listing a whole load of BS standards the doors comply with. Relevant BS standards are BS476-8 (standard doors) and/or BS476-22 (fire doors).

The regulations for doors and how they react to fire haven't been updated since 1972, so it's exceptionally unlikely that your doors do not already comply with building regulations as far as fire resistance is concerned.

The regulations concerning means of escape have been updated, and obviously doors and windows are affected by those updates.

The relevant guidelines for that can be found in these documents (Building Regs -> Fire Safety) http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/bui...ntsb/documentb

You'll want Volume 1 (dwellinghouses) and you'll find the information about requirements for means of escape in section B1 paragraph 2.8, on the bottom of page 19. It's the measurements that are legally required for a door/window to be legally acceptable as a means of escape.

You might also need to consider paragraphs 2.15 and 2.17 of that section, if your door opens out onto a communal escape route.

Ask them exactly what this replacement door is going to provide you with that your current door doesn't? And what standard that is?

I cannot believe that there is a single building in the UK with a door that doesn't comply with the fire safety regulations after all these years. So I will be amazed if your door needs replacing to meet fire safety standards, that were last updated in 1988 (that's the means of escape updates).

**Squeamous** · 11-26-2011, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Biggles

1st quarter of the calendar year or first quarter of the financial year? You could spin this out to June

The fire regulation thing seems totally mental - how often fires spread from one house to another via the front door

Unfortunately I think it's the first quarter of the calendar year!

I know, it seems crazy. Although my front door does open out onto a shared central vestibule area. Apparently doors have to be certified able to withstand 30 minutes of fire according to these new EU rules. I'm going to get a second opinion

**NotLettingItGo** · 11-26-2011, 01:14 AM

There are two fire resistance ratings FD20 and FD30. All doors fitted to any building in the UK have had to comply with one of those ratings since 1972.

Most internal doors are rated at FD20, and most external doors are rated at FD30 (they were always made thicker for security, and the extra thickness automatically provided the extra fire resistance anyway).

FD30 means the door has to be able to withstand direct fire to one side of it without failing (ie allowing the fire to get through it) for a period of 30 minutes.

So you should definitely get a second opinion, and if it's uPVC see if you can find a certificate from whomever installed it, it'll be kitemarked on there to say which standards it conforms too. It might also be worth looking on the top edge of the door, some manufacturers put labels on the top egde of the door to indicate it's fire protection rating.

**NotLettingItGo** · 11-26-2011, 01:38 AM

And if they're charging you £800, you're being ripped off.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ext...w=1022&bih=863

http://www.directdoors.com/?area=search;makeget=yes;submitted=yes;searchstring=Exterior+fire+door;submit_x=9;submit_y=10;

Obviously you'd have fitting charges and the like to add to that.

**NotLettingItGo** · 11-26-2011, 02:26 AM

Oh! The FD30 is the British name for the 30 minute standard E30 is the name our European overlords have given it.

So from the sound of it your council are requiring a certified door that meets BS476-22 rated to FD30 and/or E30.

Before you look into it query the exact requirements the council want, in 2005/6 there were some updates that required some firedoors to be fitted with automatic closing mechanisms (applications of that vary between local authorities), if they want that you can get that, just remember to never step outside of your front door without a key on you.

You'll also find references to seals when you hunt around (all firedoors have to have edges that have expanding seals when heated, thus sealing the door into the frame if a fire happens), so you'll get them anyway as part of it being a certified firedoor.