Divide And Destroy.

[Billy_Dean]

Thank you JP***, that was very magnanimous of you.

[protak]

To start with "The Balfour Declaration" was a means of gaining jewish allies for WWI

That was the theory of some...The Balfour Declaration

It excludes the UN resolutions against Israel, it impies that 1967 it was defending itself...Israel was the aggressor in that war.

No Israel was the winner, and I believe they struck first tactically.
The 6 Day War

It excludes the fact that Arafat and the PLO gave up on terrorism in the mid 1970's and recognised Israels right to exist...indeed it actually says he's still sending terrorists, when this is going against his best interests

Are you suggesting Arafat, has nothing to do with, the terrorist attack's that take place everyday?
You lost me on the, Israel's wright to exist
I think the question is, was it Isreali land to begin with?
R.F. I am not trying to post unfairly, if someone takes my Opinion to heart , or out of context so be it. They will speak there mind, and I will listen.

Cheer's
Tim

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by protak@16 November 2003 - 19:19

To start with "The Balfour Declaration" was a means of gaining jewish allies for WWI

That was the theory of some...The Balfour Declaration

It excludes the UN resolutions against Israel, it impies that 1967 it was defending itself...Israel was the aggressor in that war.

No Israel was the winner, and I believe they struck first tactically.
The 6 Day War

It excludes the fact that Arafat and the PLO gave up on terrorism in the mid 1970's and recognised Israels right to exist...indeed it actually says he's still sending terrorists, when this is going against his best interests

Are you suggesting Arafat, has nothing to do with, the terrorist attack's that take place everyday?
You lost me on the, Israel's wright to exist
I think the question is, was it Isreali land to begin with?
R.F. I am not trying to post unfairly, if someone takes my Opinion to heart , or out of context so be it. They will speak there mind, and I will listen.

Cheer's
Tim

From your Link... Clicking the first link of that Historical "British Support for a Jewish State"...which i am not desputing.. Balfour Declaration.

Quoted directly from that:

that the declaration was intended to curry favor with the Jews, so that the Jews in the United States and Russia would influence their governments to support the British cause in the war.

The war in question was WWI... which ended 30years before 1948

Would you agree that the UK had no right to issue that declaration, as the land they were offering was not theirs to give?


As to Israels "Right to Exist"...yes they have. They are a recognised country, and deserve the same "Right to Exist" as any other country....now. Then however, i would have opposed its creation.

No Israel was the winner, and I believe they struck first tactically.

The USSR used to gather their forces in East Germany on exercise, even at times of great International Tension. It is a common political ploy. Do you wish the USA had "Tactically" struck first?

You said it in your own response...yes, they were the winner. They were also the agressor... ie "Struck First"

Are you suggesting Arafat, has nothing to do with, the terrorist attack's that take place everyday?
You lost me on the, Israel's wright to exist 
I think the question is, was it Isreali land to begin with?

Arafat and Sharron hate each other, and have since the Israeli's got the Lebanese Christians to massacre the Pallestinian women and children in Lebanon...then watched it happen (despite the fact that they were under "Israeli Protection" at the time). At that time Sharron was in charge of the Israeli Defence Force, and was instrumental in that massacre.

The PLO (of which Arafat was the leader) denounced terrorism in the mid 1970's, and recognised Israel's "Right to Exist". In the 1990's the PLO formed the Pallestinian Authority and were well on the road to peace. The PLO was a "Nationalist" organisation, that prior to the mid 1970's was a very active terrorist organisation.

Since the early 1990's when Israel's new Government tore up the Peace Agreement, the Pallestinian Authority has not been involved in any terrorist acts against Israel.

There are other Terrorist Groups; mainly Hamas, that have been very active. Arafat is not a member of Hamas, which is a Religious group, with support throughout the Middle East. (The PLO didnt have nearly this amount of support, being only a Nationalist Organisation, and was never Religious. It recognised Jews that lived in Palestine before 1948 as Palestinians, as part of their charter).

As i've said before; Israel has, in effect, tied the Pallestinian Authorities hands... The Palestinians want to fight the Israeli's incursions but the Authority wants dialogue, so they turn to the other Groups. In any Civil War in the Palestinian area between Hamas etc and the Authority...the Authority would lose.

Its quite hard to keep people under arrest when they are not only more powerful than your own organisation, but your organisation has no outside support...but the other has huge resources to call upon. Arafat just does what he can to stay in power, and in my opinion has probably done more for Peace since 1975 than anyone else. The temptation to go back to Fighting must be huge...its what his people want, as they were stabbed in the back by Sharron and co...

R.F. I am not trying to post unfairly, if someone takes my Opinion to heart , or out of context so be it. They will speak there mind, and I will listen.

Im not saying you are trying to "Post unfairly"...but if you post then you must also weigh up the evidence. There is a huge "Propaganda Machine", not always intentional, of misinformation out there.

I was trying to point out that "Facts" from an Israeli source like this are as reliable as "Facts" coming out of Hamas; as an example... ie Not much weight will be put on the evidence by most people that post here.

The more independant the source, the better the evidence as a general rule of thumb.

[protak]

R.F. If your going to cut and paste do it in context.
From your Link... Clicking the first link of that Historical "British Support for a Jewish State"...which i am not desputing.. Balfour Declaration.

Quoted directly from that:
QUOTE
that the declaration was intended to curry favor with the Jews, so that the Jews in the United States and Russia would influence their governments to support the British cause in the war.

No from my link.
. Another hypothesis, is that the declaration was intended to curry favor with the Jews, so that the Jews in the United States and Russia would influence their governments to support the British cause in the war. However, the declaration did not fall as a bolt from the blue, but was rather the culmination of a long tradition in Britain that supported restoration of the Jews to their own land for philosophical, religious and imperialistic motives.
Note the word Hypothesis.
Anyway they can't and probably won't resolve their problem's, and the question still remains, was it Israeli land to begin with?
Cheer's
Tim

[Rat Faced]

Touche..

I did say i did not dispute that the Uk was in favour of it anyway, however did they have the right to offer someone elses land?

[MediaSlayer]

Originally posted by protak@17 November 2003 - 19:14
R.F. If your going to cut and paste do it in context.

9 posts down

[protak]

Originally posted by MediaSlayer+17 November 2003 - 16:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 17 November 2003 - 16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-protak@17 November 2003 - 19:14
R.F. If your going to cut and paste do it in context.

9 posts down [/b][/quote]
You shit disturber M.S.

[Alex H]

What would happen if Isreal and Palestine joined the EU? The rest of Europe decided to argue about trade and industry instead of having wars all the time, and they have common currency and people can travel freely, aswell as having set standards and arbitrators to settle disputes. Granted the area is not quite Europe, but it is close enough to be consided.

Opinions on this?

[MediaSlayer]

It would never work. First of all, the EU would never accept Israel as one of their own. Even if they did, the situation would soon revert back to open hostility. This thread is a good example of what hostility Israel would face if they joined. That&#39;s another thing, Israel probably wouldn&#39;t join anyway. You don&#39;t kill millions of people then turn around and say, "hey, we&#39;ve changed&#33;" "we learned our lesson&#33;". Nope. Actions speak louder than words. Until there is a genuine change of heart within the EU about Israel/Jews there won&#39;t be much chance for any end to the current situation. What would those "politically correct" european leaders say if Israel killed 6 million arabs? They would have a field day. It amounts to hypocrisy imho. The bottom line is there is still too much distrust, there are too many people who want to incite hatred on both sides because of what has happened, it would require sacrifices and change on both sides, which is just too difficult at the moment.

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by Tim
.... and the question still remains, was it Israeli land to begin with?

NO

Unless, of course, you agree that jews are God&#39;s chosen people, and therefore something special, better than all other races on Earth. The conduct of the Israeli government should answer that one for you.