The states need more parties

[Artemis]

Well now you have your point.

All democratic governments have representation, therefore a parliamentary system. The way the branches of governments interact and set policy determine the type of democratic system in place. Referendums, issues that voters vote on directly, is a form of direct democracy. Having representatives, elected by voters, vote on issues is indirect democracy. All democratic governments are hybridized with both indirect and direct forms, their classification resting on their primary method of policy setting.

Sadly, patiently and lucidly explaining concepts to Oleg is a bit like teaching a carp to ride a bicycle - he'll never really use the newly found skills anyway, and the great blank will come and he will forget all you have taught him. He will then repeat his original hypothesis as if nothing had happened, because in truth nothing has happened for him. He very much reminds me of the lead character in the movie Memento except without any real will to change his circumstances.
I think you will gain more enjoyment from your day revisiting the galvanic response of frogs, than explaining anything different to his beliefs to OlegL.

[mjmacky]

I think you will gain more enjoyment from your day revisiting the galvanic response of frogs, than explaining anything different to his beliefs to OlegL.

I should have put a horizontal line, and in fact I'll go back and edit it. I wasn't really directing it towards Oleg, it was more of a matter for clarity's sake, and also to expose my understanding of it just in case I don't have it all factually correct. The bonus would be, to refer Oleg to the same post over and over again in case he wants to continue on his current path.

[OlegL]

All democratic governments are hybridized with both indirect and direct forms, their classification resting on their primary method of policy setting.

So, what elements of direct democracy can you find in the United States? I think that the only thing we are able to do directly is to vote for our representatives in the Congress. We can't choose a president directly because the Electoral College system is in place.

[mjmacky]

So, what elements of direct democracy can you find in the United States? I think that the only thing we are able to do directly is to vote for our representatives in the Congress. We can't choose a president directly because the Electoral College system is in place.

See post 30

[OlegL]

Okay.

[temisturk]

I think the problem the US (and all other large countries) face re. the "fairness" of their system of government is directly and unavoidably a matter of numbers. With >300,000,000 citizens it's impossible to have 1 President whom millions if not tens of millions of people will not utterly loathe and despise. Even with a Senate of 100 people they're each supposed to "represent" 3 million people, and obviously there will be a very wide range of interests within such a large group. And similarly with Congress but there you also start to have a problem the other way--for as many as just 435 people to agree on anything starts to be difficult.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think just introducing a few more parties, or switching to a parliamentary system would help much. And I don't even think a genuinely direct democracy (still not possible but becoming increasingly so with the spread of the Internet) would be an ideal solution--you would still have tens if not hundreds of millions of people disgruntled at having "lost" any particular vote on any particular measure. And such a democracy could actually be quite harshly dictatorial in reality. Minority rights would be far from assured in a system of strict majority rule.

[mjmacky]

Even with a Senate of 100 people they're each supposed to "represent" 3 million people, and obviously there will be a very wide range of interests within such a large group.

The senate doesn't work that way. 2 U.S. senators from California represent (without quotes) over 37 million, while 2 U.S. senators from Wyoming represent just over 560 thousand. The House of Reps typically represent between 600k and 800k citizens. Each house has their own purpose in a bicameral system, and citizen representation falls on the HoR.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think just introducing a few more parties, or switching to a parliamentary system would help much.

The real problem I'm working towards is the 2-party system. With the range of views and priorities, that should be shifting (and not constant), I'd prefer to see an easier possibility for new parties to come to power in more significant representation. Wouldn't work so well for the Senate I imagine, but would work for the HoR. The parliamentary system in other countries allows them to introduce seats into the legislature, and parties rise and fall to meet the demands of the public.

As skewed, contradictory and diverse as the Tea Party is, I would have preferred to see Tea Party representatives take office as part of an official Tea Party rather than get lumped in with the Republicans. A 2-point spectrum is way too limited, but fits a Presidential Democracy, hence the proposed idea of a Parliamentary Democracy. It's still just a matter fit for discussion, reorganizing a government like that would require more of a chaotic catalyst.

Also, how cool it would have been to see the Rent Is Too Damn High party have a fighting chance in any election.

[temisturk]

I know I wasn't exact about things but I was trying to make a general point (which I still think is valid).

But anyway, I didn't say allowing more parties wouldn't help at all, I just don't think it would make as big a difference as I think you think.

[Squeamous]

More parties won't help. You'll still end up with the major two, with the rest acting as protest votes.

[mjmacky]

I dunno, I think the people are pretty finished with these two dirty whores. I've got one that never lets you kiss her under any circumstance, and the other who is always begging you to hit her. The routines get old after awhile, need a variety.

You guys haven't really dissuaded me from the appeal of a multiparty system, not even slightly. It's sort of like if I said, "I'd rather be swimming in a public pool than this fecal sewage", and then you tell me, "no you don't want to swim in a public pool, people piss in them".