New build and the inevitable problems

[Rart]

I'm using a Prolimatech Megalehems with an attached Scythe Slipstream. It's dead silent and based on the temps, the PWM alters the fan to 400 RPM which is pretty much the lowest it can go without flat out turning off, so I'd say it's working pretty well. Even telling you all this is pointless though since I'm using an an i5 2500k. You can just say that my processor's TDP is way lower than yours and thus isn't comparable.

That's why I've been "parroting" the website so much as you put it. You've heard of the scientific method right? You have to control all the other variables, otherwise you can't be sure it's actually the cooler thats worse, it could be a variety of other factors that are different. You could be running a louder fan in your air cooled system, you could be running different components, etc. etc.

That's why review sites are so important. Since it's their job, they can devote the time and effort it takes to painstakingly control every element and keep all the variables, aside from the cooler, constant. They can make sure the exact same test bed is used, the exact same case, the exact same fans, the exact same drives, the exact same graphics card, etc. etc. Sure anecdotal evidence is fine to bring up in a forum based on discussion, and is incredibly useful for less explored, niche subjects. But if it is available, a solid, methodical review done with sound procedures should trump that anyday.

Also I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit my source. It's not some site I googled for 5 seconds and clicked a sponsored result for. It's a site I've been using for years, and is easily the most comprehensive and detail oriented site when it comes to reviewing anything cooling related (also fun fact: The owner of the site was personally asked by Antec to help design their P180 series, so if they were in cahoots with anyone, it'd be Antec). If you can find any other from a reputable site that shows Antec 920 outpacing top tier air coolers such as the the Thermalright HR02 (in push-pull) or the Noctua NH-C14, we can have debate over which source is correct, but otherwise I'd say the burden of proof is still on you.

[Artemis]

I'm using a Prolimatech Megalehems with an attached Scythe Slipstream. It's dead silent and based on the temps, the PWM alters the fan to 400 RPM which is pretty much the lowest it can go without flat out turning off, so I'd say it's working pretty well. Even telling you all this is pointless though since I'm using an an i5 2500k. You can just say that my processor's TDP is way lower than yours and thus isn't comparable.

That's why I've been "parroting" the website so much as you put it. You've heard of the scientific method right? You have to control all the other variables, otherwise you can't be sure it's actually the cooler thats worse, it could be a variety of other factors that are different. You could be running a louder fan in your air cooled system, you could be running different components, etc. etc.

That's why review sites are so important. Since it's their job, they can devote the time and effort it takes to painstakingly control every element and keep all the variables, aside from the cooler, constant. They can make sure the exact same test bed is used, the exact same case, the exact same fans, the exact same drives, the exact same graphics card, etc. etc. Sure anecdotal evidence is fine to bring up in a forum based on discussion, and is incredibly useful for less explored, niche subjects. But if it is available, a solid, methodical review done with sound procedures should trump that anyday.

Also I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit my source. It's not some site I googled for 5 seconds and clicked a sponsored result for. It's a site I've been using for years, and is easily the most comprehensive and detail oriented site when it comes to reviewing anything cooling related (also fun fact: The owner of the site was personally asked by Antec to help design their P180 series, so if they were in cahoots with anyone, it'd be Antec). If you can find any other from a reputable site that shows Antec 920 outpacing top tier air coolers such as the the Thermalright HR02 (in push-pull) or the Noctua NH-C14, we can have debate over which source is correct, but otherwise I'd say the burden of proof is still on you.

I'm not trying so hard to discredit your source, the arrogance of the 'anecdotal evidence' comments from you since you have absolutely no idea of my background in the computer industry, which includes alot more than 'a couple of builds',is not a good way to enter into a discourse.

As to the Antec 920 outpacing top tier coolers no it is a. now an older discontinued model, and b. based on standard Asetek design hardware with some tweaking so roughly comparable to the Corsair CLC's of the same era, it was a first attempt, a very good first attempt, but is now an obsolete design.

As I have stated more than once (yes I'm quite sure I've repeated myself) Intel themselves recommended liquid cooling for the LGA 2011 processor and released their own closed loop cooling solution, the only solution they provide for the LGA 2011. Now I researched this and found out it was a standard basic Asetek single fan design with a fairly small radiator so is comparable to low end Corsair offerings, after doing research at the time Corsair and Antec products were far ahead and for me for reasons previously stated the Antec h2o 920 was a clear winner.

This is the third time I have written further paragraphs in response only to have them disappear and be replaced by the last auto save point so I'm not going to try for a fourth.

[IdolEyes787]

Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games).

Not to say that you lack keen powers of observation but I'm essentially playing one now.

Anyway I think Shakespeare put it best.
"All the world's a game
And all the men and women merely tiny pixel thingies
Waiting for the inevitable hard drive crash".

Shakespeare was sage like that and that's why I admire her so much.

[A]

Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games).

Not to say that you lack keen powers of observation but I'm essentially playing one now.

Anyway I think Shakespeare put it best.
"All the world's a game
And all the men and women merely tiny pixel thingies
Waiting for the inevitable hard drive crash".

Shakespeare was sage like that and that's why I admire her so much.

You have been pulling quotes from all over the place and updating it for the new millennium. What are you so up-an-up about?

[mjmacky]

It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.

Actually it would just make it a specialized assassin, and a more proper analogy would be a hand model. However, it's better than a hand model counterpart because it assassinates hurricanes and typhoons and shit. So, like, a labia model.

[Rart]

I'm not trying so hard to discredit your source, the arrogance of the 'anecdotal evidence' comments from you since you have absolutely no idea of my background in the computer industry, which includes alot more than 'a couple of builds',is not a good way to enter into a discourse.

Then talk more about how your experience in the industry has led you to the conclusion that these closed looped water coolers are undoubtedly better then these top tier air coolers. What have you done/tested with comparable setups to come to that conclusion.

All you've been saying in this thread is "hey I made some builds, of wildly varying configurations, but in my experience, the water cooler is better". You're asking me to believe you over a website that's sole job has been to compare these types of coolers for well over a decade with very little actual data to back up your claims.

If I sound arrogant by saying "anecdotal evidence", I apologize, as that was not my intention. It's not a reflection of my opinion of you, at all. But based on what you've said in this thread and my knowledge of the English language what you've given is just that, anecdotal evidence. I would say that to anyone, no matter what their computer background.

As to the Antec 920 outpacing top tier coolers no it is a. now an older discontinued model, and b. based on standard Asetek design hardware with some tweaking so roughly comparable to the Corsair CLC's of the same era, it was a first attempt, a very good first attempt, but is now an obsolete design.

The Antec 920 isn't discontinued. It's still being sold, and is still Antec's top tier model for water cooling.

As I have stated more than once (yes I'm quite sure I've repeated myself) Intel themselves recommended liquid cooling for the LGA 2011 processor and released their own closed loop cooling solution, the only solution they provide for the LGA 2011. Now I researched this and found out it was a standard basic Asetek single fan design with a fairly small radiator so is comparable to low end Corsair offerings, after doing research at the time Corsair and Antec products were far ahead and for me for reasons previously stated the Antec h2o 920 was a clear winner.

Yes you have stated that multiple times, and I haven't exactly responded to it cause I didn't find it particularly relevant to the argument. It's like saying "EA recommends AMD GPUs for BF4, so AMD is better". It doesn't exactly show me that water coolers are better.

[megabyteme]

Cawk much, rart? I asked Art about his reasoning behind using the large amount of RAM* because he is the one countless members have turned to regarding machine builds, troubleshooting, networking, etc... for years now. He has always either known the answer(s) off the top of his head, or posted where to find the info. Always.

Now you want to challenge him on his home turf with "knowledge" gained from an enthusiast builder site. Do you seriously expect to win here with your 5-page "in-depth" article on the Sucknado®?


*Which was answered easily- he followed the manufacturer's suggestion, then added to that amount because he is doing a large amount of encoding with that machine. Under his needs, with the hardware involved, it makes sense, And, if Art says there is a significant improvement, I would bet money on it. He is neither an uneducated kid, nor an "enthusiast" looking to blow money unnecessarily.

[Rart]

For fucks sake.

This is what a forum is for.

Discussing shit.

I'm passionate about technology, and Artemis and I have differing opinions on a topic. So just because Artemis is some magical guru of technology, I should just sit on my ass and blindly believe everything he says, rather than actually trying to engage in a debate, which is, you know, what a forum is for?

I saw your post on ERB. Do you know why people don't post here anymore? It's cause in every section aside from the NZB section, 90% of the posts and threads have devolved into nothing more than sarcastic remarks between the clique of FST and newer members will have no idea what the fuck is going on, and no meaningful discussions can ever be made.

I joined this forum specifically cause it wasn't a gigantic fucking circlejerk like the majority of other filesharing sites. Now it doesn't even seem that different. I challenge Artemis on what he says an I all get are remarks that I'm "arrogant" and a "cawk" for not blindly trusting him and bringing up my own opinion.

It seems pretty clear from the way the thread is going that no one is actually interested in having a lively debate about how these hardware parts will affect performance. Even idol who originally brought up the topic refuses to reply in even the most basic of manners into how he'll actually be using this computer. I guess I'll fuck off now so you guys can continue exchanging sarcastic banter with eachother rather then actually discussing hardware and I won't upset the balance. Hey, if that's what you guys joined the forum for, more power to you. Who am I to say how you use this forum. All I know is that's not what I joined the forum so I'll just find somewhere else to go.

[megabyteme]

So my opinion on your efforts to go head-to-head with the multi-decade experienced professional on his area of expertise is not allowed?

It is good to have you back, Rart. I mean that sincerely. This is an uphill battle, though.

[Rart]

Where the hell did I say your opinion wasn't allowed? Your opinion is always allowed. I never said it wasn't. I just disagree with it.

All I'm saying is that your opinion goes against the very reason I joined this forum. Just because he's experienced means I shouldn't try to engage in a debate over things I'm passionate about, in god forbid a forum of all places, where the description of the forum is "Discuss everything related to Software and Hardware"?

Even if I haven't been particularly active recently due to time constraints, I have lurked the forum quite frequently. It's indicative of the general trend this forum has taken, and the deterioration of the quality of posts on the forum. Almost every thread outside of the NZB forum eventually devolves into pointless drivel and sarcastic banter impossible for new members to understand, and you guys wonder why there isn't as much activity as there used to be. Sorry for trying to bring some discussion into this site. If this is the mindset that even established members such as yourself take, I don't particularly have any motivation to contribute to the site anymore. Clearly the main members of the forum have different goals in mind of what they want to get out of the site, and that's fine. It's just different from mine, so I don't really see a point in continuing to frequent the forum.