Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Gun Control

  1. #11
    Skiz's Avatar (_8(I)
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    CO
    Age
    46
    Posts
    22,943
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyverSG1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballero View Post
    Skiz must only watch fox news.
    Wrong again. I don't watch biased bullshit. That's also why I don't watch any of the other cable news channels as they all cater to a demographic. If you think Fox is any worse than CNN or MSNBC then you're just blind or dumb.


    yo

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #12
    First off, I'm not anti-gun. I like shooting guns. But everyday citizens don't need "assault rifles" at home or handguns that carry more than six rounds (especially large caliber). We need restrictions on what guns citizens can have at home. If you want to shoot "assault rifles" and hand cannons, have at it. Do it at firing ranges. Let's keep those weapons stored at ranges. If you need a rifle to hunt for food, bolt action works just fine. If you can't get a kill without an assault rifle, you deserve to die of hunger. A 22 or 38 is plenty for home protection. Most people shot at home are shot by their own gun. Shoot an invader with something more powerful in your home and you'll blow your eardrums.

    Fuck the constitutional right bullshit and the scotus. The Scotus is a joke, just like our current democracy (no matter who is president). Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. This is not the 1700 or 1800's anymore. The right to bear arms was for citizens to protect the country from invaders (foreign or domestic). People needed guns back then to hunt and personal protection. We have law enforcement to keep order and supermarkets to feed people.

    I don't trust any politician to do the right thing. I'm not a Democrat (and definitely not a Republican). They all have ulterior motives. It's about keeping certain groups/people/companies happy so they can keep their jobs safe. It should be about doing what's best for the country.

    We need federal gun laws that ALL states follow with a centralized database that includes ALL gun owners. Having each state with different gun laws doesn't work.

    All your figures above sound nice, but without credible sources to back them up, they are believable as the bullshit trump spews out everyday.

    I'm done, not worth any more of my time.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #13
    IdolEyes787's Avatar Persona non grata
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    State of Grace
    Posts
    31,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Skiz View Post
    We have the presumption of innocence in the US and until you have been convicted of a crime, you are innocent. You cannot punish people by taking away their rights without due process. That notion is the foundation of our civil liberties.
    This is laughable given the historical treatment of certain peoples. I mean the US isn't even consistent with it's bullshit like you can suspend the rights of Asian-Americans because it is war and you can bypass the Geneva Convention as in the case of the Iraqis because you can just refer to that one as an armed conflict.

    Also methinks you killed any semblance of unbiased opinion on guns by stating you own two ARs. But that's just me as reality speaking.

    Lastly, representing the rest the the World I'd just like to ask you, what is it with you Americans and your fucking instruments of death? Can't you just find some other hobby like basically anything?
    Respect my lack of authority.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #14
    Skiz's Avatar (_8(I)
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    CO
    Age
    46
    Posts
    22,943
    I see you've essentially ignored most of what I posted but ok. Let's address what you've said.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyverSG1 View Post
    First off, I'm not anti-gun. I like shooting guns. But everyday citizens don't need "assault rifles" at home or handguns that carry more than six rounds (especially large caliber). We need restrictions on what guns citizens can have at home. If you want to shoot "assault rifles" and hand cannons, have at it. Do it at firing ranges. Let's keep those weapons stored at ranges. If you need a rifle to hunt for food, bolt action works just fine. If you can't get a kill without an assault rifle, you deserve to die of hunger. A 22 or 38 is plenty for home protection. Most people shot at home are shot by their own gun. Shoot an invader with something more powerful in your home and you'll blow your eardrums.
    What does need have to do with anything? It is a right of the people. The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the US Constitution.

    Fuck the constitutional right bullshit and the scotus. The Scotus is a joke, just like our current democracy (no matter who is president). Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. This is not the 1700 or 1800's anymore. The right to bear arms was for citizens to protect the country from invaders (foreign or domestic). People needed guns back then to hunt and personal protection. We have law enforcement to keep order and supermarkets to feed people.
    I'm not sure how you expect to have any reasonable discourse when you make outrageous statements like these. I don't even know how to respond to nonsense like, "Fuck the Constitutional right bullshit and the SCOTUS."

    I don't trust any politician to do the right thing. I'm not a Democrat (and definitely not a Republican). They all have ulterior motives. It's about keeping certain groups/people/companies happy so they can keep their jobs safe. It should be about doing what's best for the country.
    I generally agree with you here.

    We need federal gun laws that ALL states follow with a centralized database that includes ALL gun owners. Having each state with different gun laws doesn't work.
    The US has loads of federal firearms standards and legislation. Some or note are the FFA which states that any new firearm sold by an individual or business be tracked through a licensed firearm dealer. These sales must also go through a federal (FBI) background check. So no felons, etc... and the "Brady Bill" which extensively expands the list of reasons a person may not purchase a firearm. It also expresses states additional rights for further restrictions.

    All your figures above sound nice, but without credible sources to back them up, they are believable as the bullshit trump spews out everyday.
    Not sure why you think I would lie about the data... Lying would just further your point, not mine. But ok, ask and ye shall receive.

    HR 2324 - Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2009. Died in Congress.
    Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-...ouse-bill/2324

    Democrats fail to renew FAWB
    Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...t-weapons-ban/

    HR 5827 - Protecting Gun Owners in Bankruptcy Act of 2010
    Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-...ouse-bill/5827

    Guns allowed in national parks and on Amtrak
    Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35484383/n.../#.WwRQ9S-ZP_Q

    Democrats exempt NRA from DISCLOSE Act
    Source: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/10...-over-nra-deal

    "According to the FBI Crime Statistics, rifles (which includes the AR-15 and pretty much anything with a long barrel) account for less than 2% of homicides."
    Source: Dept of Justice study aggregated from 38 sources. Page 15 - https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf

    "...gun ownership increasing enormously..."
    Source: http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/...-demographics/

    "...gun violence in the US is decreasing each year..."
    Source: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...rate-edges-up/
    Those stats show gun violence has decreased by more than half since 1993!

    "...the federal list of "assault weapons" consists of 16 rifles and a short list of shotguns. All of these guns put together accounted for 0.6% of gun deaths since 2004"
    Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...-data-table-11

    The proof is right there in clear data. I hope you now find it more than just "believable". Gun crime is going down while gun ownership is going up. It is an irrefutable fact.

    This is an excellent in depth data driven read as well.

    Later tonight or tomorrow as I have some time I'll break down some of those FBI stats even further.


    yo

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #15
    I read both of your posts completely. No need to comment on every sentence. Since I know you won't change your mind. All those firearm statistics mean nothing to me. Depending on who collects the data and compiles it, you can make it favor one side or the other. There are many factors that can make the numbers look favorable. Population growth dilutes the numbers. Most of the firearms are owned by a small number of people. Of course more homicides are committed by handguns than rifles. More mass shootings are committed by rifles (long guns). If that shooter in Las Vegas only had a bolt action rifle and handguns, the number of dead and wounded would have been much lower. The public shouldn't have free access to military grade weapons. I don't care if they are semi-auto. Keep those weapons locked up at firing ranges (where they should only be used).

    I just looked up "Guns allowed in national parks". The new law allowing guns in national parks was created as part of the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009. That was put forth by a Democrat to help protect consumers from credit card companies. A Republican added an amendment last minute to allow guns in national parks. Gun rights advocates in the Senate, led by Tom Coburn (R-Okla) added an unrelated rider to the bill to prevent the Secretary of the Interior from enforcing any regulation that would prohibit an individual from possessing a firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System. I'm sure the NRA was behind this. Typical republican strategy to sneak in their agenda (or campaign contributors agenda) under the radar. And democrats cave because they are willing to compromise.

    Democrats fail to renew FAWB. Obama introduced the idea after Sandy Hook shooting (2012). They tried to renew it when congress was controlled by republicans. Of course it was not going to pass.

    Like I said, I'm done with this. We have opposite point of views and are not going to change them.

    P.S. Have fun with those stats. That I will be ignoring.
    Last edited by MacGyverSG1; 05-22-2018 at 10:19 PM.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #16
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Skiz View Post
    We have the presumption of innocence in the US and until you have been convicted of a crime, you are innocent. You cannot punish people by taking away their rights without due process. That notion is the foundation of our civil liberties.
    This is laughable given the historical treatment of certain peoples. I mean the US isn't even consistent with it's bullshit like you can suspend the rights of Asian-Americans because it is war and you can bypass the Geneva Convention as in the case of the Iraqis because you can just refer to that one as an armed conflict.

    Also methinks you killed any semblance of unbiased opinion on guns by stating you own two ARs. But that's just me as reality speaking.

    Lastly, representing the rest the the World I'd just like to ask you, what is it with you Americans and your fucking instruments of death? Can't you just find some other hobby like basically anything?
    I agree.

    Fear is a powerful tool. Many naive people are afraid terrorists are going to take over the country. They need guns to protect themselves. The delusional ones think the federal government wants to get them.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #17
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,887
    Walter E. Williams

    Professor of Economics.

    [email protected]

    Department of Economics
    George Mason University


    Past Versus Present Americans

    Having enjoyed my 82nd birthday, I am part of a group of about 50 million Americans who are 65 years of age or older. Those who are 90 or older were in school during the 1930s. My age cohort was in school during the 1940s.

    Baby boomers approaching their 70s were in school during the 1950s and early ’60s.

    Try this question to any one of those 50 million Americans who are 65 or older:

    Do you recall any discussions about the need to hire armed guards to protect students and teachers against school shootings?

    Do you remember school policemen patrolling the hallways?

    How many students were shot to death during the time you were in school?

    For me and those other Americans 65 or older, when we were in school, a conversation about hiring armed guards and having police patrol hallways would have been seen as lunacy.

    There was no reason.

    What’s the difference between yesteryear and today?

    The logic of the argument for those calling for stricter gun control laws, in the wake of recent school shootings, is that something has happened to guns.

    Guns have behaved more poorly and become evil.

    Guns themselves are the problem.

    The job for those of us who are 65 or older is to relay the fact that guns were more available and less controlled in years past, when there was far less mayhem.

    Something else is the problem.

    Guns haven’t changed.

    People have changed.

    Behavior that is accepted from today’s young people was not accepted yesteryear.

    For those of us who are 65 or older, assaults on teachers were not routine as they are in some cities.

    For example, in Baltimore, an average of four teachers and staff members were assaulted each school day in
    2010, and more than 300 school staff members filed workers’ compensation claims in a year because of injuries received through assaults or altercations on the job.

    In Philadelphia, 690 teachers were assaulted in 2010, and in a five-year period, 4,000 were.

    In that city’s schools, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer, “on an average day 25 students, teachers, or other staff members were beaten, robbed, sexually assaulted, or victims of other violent crimes.

    That doesn’t even include thousands more who are extorted, threatened, or bullied in a school year.”

    Yale University legal scholar John Lott argues that gun accessibility in our country has never been as restricted as it is now.

    Lott reports that until the 1960s, New York City public high schools had shooting clubs.

    Students carried their rifles to school on the subway in the morning and then turned them over to their homeroom teacher or a gym teacher — and that was mainly to keep them centrally stored and out of the way.

    Rifles were retrieved after school for target practice (http://tinyurl.com/yapuaehp).

    Virginia’s rural areas had a long tradition of high school students going hunting in the morning before school, and they sometimes stored their guns in the trunks of their cars during the school day, parked on the school grounds.

    During earlier periods, people could simply walk into a hardware store and buy a rifle.

    Buying a rifle or pistol through a mail-order catalog — such as Sears, Roebuck & Co.’s — was easy.

    Often, a 12th or 14th birthday present was a shiny new .22-caliber rifle, given to a boy by his father.

    These facts of our history should confront us with a question: With greater accessibility to guns in the past, why wasn’t there the kind of violence we see today, when there is much more restricted access to guns?

    There’s another aspect of our response to mayhem.

    When a murderer uses a bomb, truck or car to kill people, we don’t blame the bomb, truck or car.

    We don’t call for control over the instrument of death.

    We seem to fully recognize that such objects are inanimate and incapable of acting on their own.

    We blame the perpetrator.

    However, when the murder is done using a gun, we do call for control over the inanimate instrument of death — the gun.

    I smell a hidden anti-gun agenda.


    Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #18
    People have changed, but so has guns. TV, movies and video games sensationalize guns. And unfortunately, until people change and how we celebrate guns changes, the only solution is to do something about guns.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #19
    Cliché but 100% true; "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #20
    IdolEyes787's Avatar Persona non grata
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    State of Grace
    Posts
    31,059
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBirdFinger View Post
    Cliché but 100% true; "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
    Also law enforcement and the military is basically where that argument falls apart.
    Respect my lack of authority.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •