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Thread: And What About North Korea?

  1. #21
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    Just some idle rambling on my part.

    The present Bush administration policy(from the time of his inauguration) toward North Korea has been one of isolation. The revelation of nuclear weapons developement, has just resulted in a stepping up of that policy. If one was to look back in history, you might see a comparable situation with disturbing results. The US emargo of oil to Japan, led the Japanese to conclude that their only solution was to go to war with the US. Now, from my pespective, there are a lot of differences between the Korean and Japanese cultures and their value systems, so that might not be a true indication of any tendency on North Korea's part. But it does make you wonder what they might do, if they feel their back is to the wall. They've already made threats that further sanctions as a response to their nuclear program would be considered an act of war.

    But of course, the main problem behind the implementation of current US policy is the fact that we can't get our allies in the region to follow suit. Both Japan and South Korea have policies of reconcilliation with North Korea, and are completely unwilling to risk the chance of war by cooperating with current US policy. That might also be the reason for plans for an overall decrease in US forces, in South Korea, exist.

  2. Lounge   -   #22
    Didn't you guys ever watch "The Princess Bride"?\

    The number one rule for living is "never get into a land war in Asia"

    Bush might have gotten straight C's in college, but he probably saw that movie

  3. Lounge   -   #23
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Inconceivable!
    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  4. Lounge   -   #24
    Logan-Grimnar's Avatar Poster
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    I agree with you all..Bush just can't go to war against North Korea...they are trained to kill...heck they were born to kill....

  5. Lounge   -   #25
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    North Korea as they said and with some foundation will be dealt with by the US, according to their ever changing views, on the revival of their nuclear programs. They have flouted UN conventions and there have been some voices saying they should be brought up before the UN Security Council, but even the IAEA says that it would be unlikely to result in any direct action.

    They have banned inspectors etc. Why would the US deal with them in secret talks??

  6. Lounge   -   #26
    jetje's Avatar former star
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    Originally posted by maximboy99@14 February 2003 - 02:49
    I dont want war, but I dont want Iraq building WMD even more. Jetje you underestimate American willpower and how we are deadly serious about terrorism and regimes that support it in any way. Here let me pose to you a question this way: What should Americans do? Sit Idly by as another regime, which threatens peace in the world as we know it, grows in power? If you think a war with Iraq tomorrow is bad, think 100xs as bad a few years from now. Its time to stop backing down, or all of us are going to end up in whole new world, where the evil men threaten the peaceful ones, and the peaceful ones give in. You ever heard of appeasement? Thats the only solution you offer. It failed 50 years ago, its failing again.
    i think the American policy threatens peace in the world, you turn things upside down.
    Iraq and North Korea doesn't start the war, they are just trying to protect themselfes.
    And honestly maybe they're right. If they don't scare the Superpowers enough, they get attacked.
    You just going to attack them to keep them small, quiet and under the thumb. Why????
    Just because they think different, why you think they are a threat to you? Or world civilization?
    You seem to forget that we're talking about people, not countrie names, people, they laugh, cry, die, get born as well. They also like to live.
    They don't want to use a-bombs. But they need them to scare imperialistic countries, just as the USA has them to show muscles. Why, because that's the only way we seem to take them serious.

    You know what, if the attacks happens the terrorist you're all after are probably lying in bed watching CNN in New York, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, Boston Washingto wherever. They smile, they have acomplished their missions, the world will be in fire then. Unstoppable

  7. Lounge   -   #27
    maximboy99
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    "i think the American policy threatens peace in the world, you turn things upside down"

    So according to you Jetje, America threatens world peace by getting involved in world? Well if you knew anything about Americans, you would understand most of us want a policy of isolation. Many Americans think the world is ungrateful for the sacrifices we make towards world order. The problem is, everytime we adopt isolation as a policy, somebody grows some huge testicles (IE Hitler, Bin Laden, Saddam, Kim Jong). They realise no one else will stand up to them. Just look at South Korea. Oh North Korea come play with us in our "sunshine policy". All thats accomplishing is signaling that South Korea is weak militarily, and weak willed (towards war, I dont mean it as a direct insult). South Korea is practically inviting an attack. I cant believe how niave your country is about North Korea's ambitions, you act like they dont want to attack South Korea.



    "Iraq and North Korea doesn't start the war, they are just trying to protect themselfes"

    Yes I suppose both countries like to have some of the biggest armies in the world, just "to protect themselves". I mean that logic fits perfectly with history. for instance Iraq was only "defending" itself against Iran. In the early 1990s, when Iraq had one of the worlds largest armies ( just for peace right?) they had to "defend" themselves against the bloodthirsty Kuwaities. I mean c'mon, are you trying to re-write history?



    "And honestly maybe they're right. If they don't scare the Superpowers enough, they get attacked.
    You just going to attack them to keep them small, quiet and under the thumb. Why????
    Just because they think different, why you think they are a threat to you? Or world civilization?
    You seem to forget that we're talking about people, not countrie names, people, they laugh, cry, die, get born as well. They also like to live.
    They don't want to use a-bombs. But they need them to scare imperialistic countries, just as the USA has them to show muscles. Why, because that's the only way we seem to take them serious."

    I tell you what, its your opinion, but your opinions are *not* biased by any facts. You suggest we let these countries, who simply "think different", control the world through fear. That is what North Korea is doing, incase you havent noticed. I mean if your not opposed to North Korea acting the way it is, couldn't the United States, China, France, Japan, and the UK all say "give us free handouts or its an act of war and we may use nukes". Thats the logic of your argument. You have no moral grounding other than "people, they laugh, cry, die, get born as well. They also like to live." Because you forget that the rest of the world also has people who want to do the same things, your response is: America is threatening, but infact it is protecting.



    "They don't want to use a-bombs. But they need them to scare imperialistic countries, just as the USA has them to show muscles. Why, because that's the only way we seem to take them serious."

    Your right on two points here. They need them to scare countries and they need them to be "taken seriously". I would like you to note I said countries, not imperialistic countries. In 2003 there is no single imperialistic country. Perhaps you need to go read the definition of imperialistic. ( http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/i/i0057600.html ) . Sorry, as much as the intelligencia would have you believe, America is not imperialistic. We do not conquerer nations, and make them fly the American flag, or pay taxes to our government. Name one place in the world that is a member of the United States, that wishes not to be. Further info: http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000017.html . But being right about them wanting to have nukes to be "taken seriously" does not mean its ok.



    "You know what, if the attacks happens the terrorist you're all after are probably lying in bed watching CNN in New York, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, Boston Washingto wherever. They smile, they have acomplished their missions, the world will be in fire then. Unstoppable"

    Actually they were sitting in Afghanistan, thats why we attacked them. Yes some are able to get into various Western countries but not the majority. According to you we should just give up in the name of peace. Terrorists cant be stopped, they are "unstoppable". But they have not accomplished their mission, because America will stand up to them. By telling the world that if your regime supports terrorism, and terrorists from within your country attack the US, expect us to respond in kind. The US cannot play defense, we will lose if we play defense. Their mission is to crush Western "infidels", destroy our culture, because Allah has promised them that Islam will succeed in the world. They wont stop if America falls, they wont stop until their religion is the only religion. If you want proof, read their fatwahs. They explicity state this. And be careful when reading this, Im talking about terrorists not every person who follows Islam. Again all you (Jetje) offer is appeasement. Appeasement shrugs off responsibilities, it can enable evil people, but I promise you this: appeasement is the attitude of conquered nations. History, facts, and logic support this.

  8. Lounge   -   #28
    Originally posted by maximboy99@14 February 2003 - 21:03
    I would like you to note I said countries, not imperialistic countries.  In 2003 there is no single imperialistic country.  Perhaps you need to go read the definition of imperialistic.  ( http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/i/i0057600.html ) .  Sorry, as much as the intelligencia would have you believe, America is not imperialistic.  We do not conquerer nations, and make them fly the American flag, or pay taxes to our government.  Name one place in the world that is a member of the United States, that wishes not to be.  Further info: http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000017.html .
    I just wondered, maybe you Americans had a different definition from us, Europeans. So I checked on a reliable American dictionary, i.e. Webster's New Collegiate.


    imperialism : the policy, practice or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation esp. by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas.

    You must have been mixing-up imperialism and colonialism.

  9. Lounge   -   #29
    jetje's Avatar former star
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    thnx ketoprak someone knows what word means B)

    @maximboy99 , i state. Yes The US A is threatining world peace, i never slept less becauase your so called threat of Iraq An Korea. I do on the way your countrie is provoke all the "terrorist" states. Your lightning a fire that's gonna backfire on your countrie and the rest of the world. Btw why i quoted terrorist states, there are none. There are evil men organized they are terrorist, but a state is millions of people who just try to survive live happy and in peace. Terrorist are every where even in your USA (oklahoma bomber/the Koresh sect). Don't be ashamed we have them over here too. But to handle them you don't bomb a countrie or start a war !

    Many Americans think the world is ungrateful for the sacrifices we make towards world order.
    Who's world order? i don't need world order i need world peace. We need to help the politicians have fair trades for their countries, take them serious. The only thing we all have to do is share the wealth we have with all in the world. A happy man is a peacefull man. Not a frightend one he wants war (look at the US governement it's fear driven, fear for terrorism)

    We do not conquerer nations, and make them fly the American flag
    No but if they don't follow your " world order" think different, you just say they're terrorist and gonna bomb the shit out of thousands of innocents.

    America is threatening, but infact it is protecting.
    you mixed up, it's threatening AND protecting, their interest.

    Actually they were sitting in Afghanistan, thats why we attacked them
    .
    Did you get them? I mean OBL.... Bombed a countrie but missed the target, but wtf... nice attitude.

    Terrorists cant be stopped, they are "unstoppable". But they have not accomplished their mission, because America will stand up to them. By telling the world that if your regime supports terrorism, and terrorists from within your country attack the US, expect us to respond in kind.
    Nice reply; 1st they can't be stopped ,why your trying then? If your country respond, the terrorist have acomplished their mission, Their goal is to disturb world peace. Get more people behind their goal to destroy western civilization. By hitting innocents they will feed the need to retaliate. Because they don't have the military forces you have the need to thrown stones or the bravest will take part on the next suicide actions. As you say Unstoppable... And all this because your countrie let them provoke by a minority group.

    The US cannot play defense, we will lose if we play defense. Their mission is to crush Western "infidels", destroy our culture, because Allah has promised them that Islam will succeed in the world. They wont stop if America falls, they wont stop until their religion is the only religion. If you want proof, read their fatwahs. They explicity state this. And be careful when reading this, Im talking about terrorists not every person who follows Islam.
    Exactly a minority, please try to understand me for once, sit down and think about it. Wouldn't you live happy and in peace. A good world for you and your kids? ........ What do you think that a regular Abdullah in Baghdad wants... right. Just the same happy peacefull life as you. He doesn't bother you have another religion, he just wants food, a wife child and a job to support them. Really if your honest to yourself you understand what i'm trying to say here. We have to do something against terrorist, but bombing countries is not the right way, you just gonna hit our friend Abdullah or his family. Then he will have a reason to hate you.

    Again all you (Jetje) offer is appeasement. Appeasement shrugs off responsibilities, it can enable evil people, but I promise you this: appeasement is the attitude of conquered nations. History, facts, and logic support this.
    Had to look the word up in the dictionary but have to say i couldn't have found a better word.
    Appeasement has nothing to do about conquered nations, appeasement is needed to keep innocents alive in a world where people think different. appeasement is not weak, it's strong. It's the only way to solve problems without one that loose. It's in my opinion the only way to stop a lot of problems like for instance the Palestinian problem. Who's right in that, who's countrie is it? If we can solve that problem think biggest part of terrorisme will be killed.

    Believe me as i state all the people in the world want to live in peace without fear for war or terrorism.
    No difference in that wherever you are. USA, Europe or ??? Iraq.
    feel free to fill in any name were stands Russians B)

    In Europe and America
    There's a growing feeling of hysteria
    Conditioned to respond to all the threats
    In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
    Mr. Khrushchev said we will bury you
    I don't subscribe to this point of view
    It would be such an ignorant thing to do
    If the Russians love their children too

    How can I save my little boy
    From Oppenheimer's deadly toy
    There is no monopoly of common sense
    On either side of the political fence
    We share the same biology
    Regardless of ideology
    Believe me when I say to you
    I hope the Russians love their children too

    There is no historical precedent
    To put words in the mouth of the President
    There's no such thing as a winnable war
    It's a lie we don't believe anymore
    Mr. Reagan says we will protect you
    I don't subscribe to this point of view
    Believe me when I say to you
    I hope the Russians love their children too

    We share the same biology
    Regardless of ideology
    What might save us, me and you
    Is if the Russians love their children too

    Sting

  10. Lounge   -   #30
    Great post, jetje We will show the world "leaders" tomorrow saturday 15th what we think.

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