Wmd Reminder

**Alex H** · 12-23-2003, 05:50 AM

Hmm, Hitler. Well he was very popular ("Seig Hail!"), efficient (12,000,000 dead in concentration camps, better than anyone else to date), diplomatic ("I vill invade whoever I vant!") improved infastructure ("More Autobahns, more dams, more electricty!") funded many scientific breakthroughs, ("It is call a jet engine mein fuher. It is really fast."), and boosted industry ("Das Volkswagen is cute!")

His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.

**Busyman** · 12-23-2003, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 05:50
Hmm, Hitler. Well he was very popular ("Seig Hail!"), efficient (12,000,000 dead in concentration camps, better than anyone else to date), diplomatic ("I vill invade whoever I vant!") improved infastructure ("More Autobahns, more dams, more electricty!") funded many scientific breakthroughs, ("It is call a jet engine mein fuher. It is really fast."), and boosted industry ("Das Volkswagen is cute!")

His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.

But to say I actually admire him in ANY fashion is again absurd.

Furthermore, I am not "impressed" by 12 million people dead.

**j2k4** · 12-23-2003, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 01:50

His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.

Many of what are known as Hitler's "achievements" came about as expedients to his desire to put Germany on a war-footing.

Whether even the idea for such as the Volkswagon originated with him is subject to much debate.

When the bully pulpit is occupied by a bully, these things happen; however, I think in the case of Mr. Hitler that it would be preferable, especially from a historical standpoint, to attribute the advances of his Reich to the individuals who were responsible for their development; for example, Von Braun and his rockets.

Alex-

Your use of the word "somewhat" would seem to indicate you don't feel it necessary to put too fine a point on this; your attribution of "integrity" to Hitler is, to put it mildly, a bit baffling/confusing/laughable, or some other word which momentarily escapes me.

Of course, President Bush is constantly compared (in certain quarters) to Hitler, so I guess I should forego any expressions of surprise.

**Alex H** · 12-23-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by j2k4@23 December 2003 - 07:30
Alex-

Your use of the word "somewhat" would seem to indicate you don't feel it necessary to put too fine a point on this; your attribution of "integrity" to Hitler is, to put it mildly, a bit baffling/confusing/laughable, or some other word which momentarily escapes me.

Of course, President Bush is constantly compared (in certain quarters) to Hitler, so I guess I should forego any expressions of surprise.

"Somewhat" was an attempt to outline the seriousness of his actions by understating them to the point whereapon they become ridiculous.

I don't have any type of affection for the man, however it must be said that his "achievments" were many and great. If they were not great (in the monumental sense of the word) then they would therefor be insignificant. I'm sure we all agree that Hitler had a very large and lasting effect on he world, so we must also recognize his legacy.

In summary: He did a lot of stuff.

**j2k4** · 12-23-2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 05:02
In summary: He did a lot of stuff.

To be sure.

Pol Pot "did a lot of stuff", too

And, I guess, the same could be said of Bush, as long as you are not too picky.

Perhaps if he pushed for development of a small, fuel-efficient, utilitarian vehicle or something-

Nah. Never happen.

Hey, this "summarizing" is pretty handy; it makes history so much easier to ignore!

**MediaSlayer** · 12-23-2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Busyman@23 December 2003 - 05:23
To try to separate a persons racist beliefs from their integrity is nonsensical.

oh really? says who?

Try this one:
I admire Hitler's integrity....but he was racist.

confuse yourself, but don't confuse others.

here it is, because you asked me to "try this one":

A person is made up of many facets. So when you speak of the integrity of a person, you are speaking of a complicated thing, because a person's makeup is not "he can play football very well" or "she cares for the needy" or "he is a racist". It is possible, although unusual, to be a murderer that also has lots of compassion for starving children. Is it not? Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's possible, especially when you consider people have the ability to change. That murder might have seen the error of his ways, and started donating money to needy children. Now as for Hitler, it's so simple, it evaded you. He did very few good things, but his overall character was not very good, so without the racism, he was mostly a shitty person. Not much integrity. Now when you add the racism, it makes his integrity even lower. So instead of what you said, I would say "I don't admire Hitler very much, and he was also racist". So a person has to be a damn good person overall, to be able to be considered as having alot of integrity, even though they are racist. I think byrd is like that, and that's why i was arguing with j2k about it.

but what does this have to do with wmd?

not a damn thing, but i'll keep this up, just for you if you need it that bad.

**Busyman** · 12-23-2003, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by MediaSlayer+23 December 2003 - 17:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 23 December 2003 - 17:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@23 December 2003 - 05:23
To try to separate a persons racist beliefs from their integrity is nonsensical.

oh really? says who?

Try this one:
I admire Hitler's integrity....but he was racist.

confuse yourself, but don't confuse others.

here it is, because you asked me to "try this one":

A person is made up of many facets. So when you speak of the integrity of a person, you are speaking of a complicated thing, because a person's makeup is not "he can play football very well" or "she cares for the needy" or "he is a racist". It is possible, although unusual, to be a murderer that also has lots of compassion for starving children. Is it not? Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's possible, especially when you consider people have the ability to change. That murder might have seen the error of his ways, and started donating money to needy children. Now as for Hitler, it's so simple, it evaded you. He did very few good things, but his overall character was not very good, so without the racism, he was mostly a shitty person. Not much integrity. Now when you add the racism, it makes his integrity even lower. So instead of what you said, I would say "I don't admire Hitler very much, and he was also racist". So a person has to be a damn good person overall, to be able to be considered as having alot of integrity, even though they are racist. I think byrd is like that, and that's why i was arguing with j2k about it.

but what does this have to do with wmd?

not a damn thing, but i'll keep this up, just for you if you need it that bad. [/b][/quote]
OkOkOk

You admire Byrd....and he is racist. I understand now.

As for the WMD topic....
I'm am mostly for Democrat, j2 is for Republican
j2 quoted Byrd, among others

And YOU admired Byrd sooo much that you were offended by the mere quoting of him. It's a quote. j2 was quoting Democrats. Byrd's a Democrat. OK?

That's where this started my man

**MediaSlayer** · 12-23-2003, 07:45 PM

yep, that is where it started. i didn't like the idea of him using on of my "own"(democrats) as fuel for his republican fire, and the fact that it was that democrat made it all the worse.