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Thread: Patriotism

  1. #1
    I was talking to some people in a chat room earlier today, and the topic of Iraq/Osama/Bush etc, came up. I said my bit (and I think you all kinda know where I'm coming from - and its NOT the far left ) and then some guy called me "unpatriotic". Now the fact that I'm Australian makes this interesting and I had to go to great lengths to explain that I wasn't being unpatriotc because America isn't where I come from. According to him, wherever you are in the world, if you don't support the President of the USA, you're unpatriotic.

    Then I started thinking about the concept of patriotism and wondered what other people thoughts were. Here are some interesting ones:


    • “Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.”-- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1908

    • “A true patriot would keep the attention of his fellow citizens awake to their grievances, and not allow them to rest 'til the causes of their just complaints are removed.”-- Samuel Adams, 1771

    • “…[T]he government is merely a servant— merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.”-- Mark Twain

    • “If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it.”--Norman Thomas, Presidential candidate in 1932

    • “The last 3 years have shown, you can ignore politics, but politics won't ignore you.”-- Jay O'Connell, MikeHersh.com, 10/2/03

    • “Unless the people, through unified action, arise and take charge of their government, they will find that their government has taken charge of them. Independence and liberty will be gone, and the general public will find itself in a condition of servitude to an aggregation of organized and selfish interest.”-- President Calvin Coolidge

    • “The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure.”-- Albert Einstein

    • “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”-- Edward Abbey (1927-89), author

    • “You do not become a "dissident" just because you decide one day to take up this most unusual career. You are thrown into it by your personal sense of responsibility, combined with a complex set of external circumstances. You are cast out of the existing structures and placed in a position of conflict with them. It begins as an attempt to do your work well, and ends with being branded an enemy of society.”-- Vaclav Havel, first President of the Czech Republic

    • “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."-- Edmund Burke (1729-1797), British statesman

    • “Those of us who shout the loudest about Americanism are all too frequently those who . . . ignore some of the basic principles of Americanism -- the right to criticize, the right to hold unpopular beliefs, the right to protest, the right of independent thought.”-- Margaret Chase Smith, the first senator to speak against Senator Joe McCarthy's contention that anyone who criticized him was "aiding the enemy."

    • “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”-- Margaret Mead, 1901-78

    • "The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people... This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution."-- John Adams, 1818

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
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    I think your an unpatriotic America when you dont like America democracy and the US Constitution because thats what America was founded on. You dont have to like it but thats what I think makes you a patriot.

    If you dont like the president we can vote him out, thats why we have elections every 4 years you dont have to like the guy. As for the guys that called you unpatriotic that just doesn't make sense your an Aussie.....

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Originally posted by Alex H@16 December 2003 - 07:59
    ...According to him, wherever you are in the world, if you don't support the President of the USA, you're unpatriotic...
    Hopefully he'll grow to learn the error of that type of thinking.

    Here's one of my favourite quotes on patriotism.

    Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - Oscar Wilde

    Edit: Rather off-topic, but if I had the chance, I would've loved to have tea with Oscar Wilde.

    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    Patriotism at the moment means to follow your countrys "leader" and government no matter what it does,
    Patriotism and Nationlism go hand in hand it's for the stupid and naive.

    I think your an unpatriotic America when you dont like America democracy and the US Constitution because thats what America was founded on. You dont have to like it but thats what I think makes you a patriot.

    If you dont like the president we can vote him out, thats why we have elections every 4 years you dont have to like the guy. As for the guys that called you unpatriotic that just doesn't make sense your an Aussie.....
    America can hardly call itself democratic, if you want to stand for presisdent you need a 100 million at least or millions for seats in the reps and senate.
    Bush got less votes than Gore, that doesnt sound to democratic to me.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    Originally posted by Alex H@16 December 2003 - 06:59
    • “Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.”-- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1908
    I like that one.

    But remember, ANYONE can be the President of the United States. ANYONE with $100 million.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Originally posted by Alex H+16 December 2003 - 21:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 16 December 2003 - 21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Alex H@16 December 2003 - 06:59
    • “Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.”-- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1908
    I like that one.

    But remember, ANYONE can be the President of the United States. ANYONE with &#036;100 million. [/b][/quote]
    You like that one?

    So do I-I&#39;m a big T.R. fan.

    In his day, however, patriotism, and citizens in general, were informed by a more profound understanding of the historical origins of their country.

    These days, one might reasonably suppose a good number of our countrie&#39;s "inhabitants" aren&#39;t even aware they live in a place called the United States, nor could they find it on a map.

    Apart from Havel and Burke, have you any statements regarding "patriotism" by anyone other than Americans?

    Surely patriotism has existed and been commented on in more places than just the U.S.?

    How about some comments from Iraqi patriots?

    Palestinian patriots?

    Russian patriots?

    Or are you just interested in the objectionable American brand of same?

    BTW-I hope you don&#39;t get the idea I&#39;m picking on you, because nothing could be further from the truth.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    No, I didn&#39;t find any others. Americans seem to be the only ones interested in being "patriotic".

    BTW - Don&#39;t get the idea I&#39;m rubbishing Americans, because nothing could be further from the truth (That WAS really a joke)

    Here are some other thought provoking ones:

    Quotations - Patriotism

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Sometime when I&#39;m not dog-tired I might try to quantify/qualify/define my view of patriotism.

    I believe I have a different take on the subject.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    sparsely's Avatar °¤°¤°¤°¤°¤°¤°
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    patriotism is on sale. aisle 12.
    religious faith is on 7.
    as always, thank you for shopping, and always Buy American (outsourced to 3rd world slave-labor tyrants), because
    Jesus loves us more.

    this post is guaranteed 100% parrot-free

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Well, Oscar Wilde wasn&#39;t American, but I suppose his thought is not what you&#39;re looking for.

    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

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