Death Penalty

[ZeroTolerance]

im against the death penalty because i said so...

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Neo 721@31 December 2003 - 17:07
Judging by the barbaric nature of the US justice system there isnt anyway in our lifetime that this issue will be debated to any effect.

Neo-

Would you compare for us the ways the U.S. justice system is barbaric relative to other civilized/industrial countries?

Apart from the death-penalty?

[vidcc]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+2 January 2004 - 00:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 2 January 2004 - 00:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vidcc@2 January 2004 - 01:46
ok lets say that there was absolutely no doubt about guilt....a man walks onto the set of jerry springer and "pops a cap in his ass" thereby rendering the aforementioned host dead (ignore that tv would suddenly become better) the man is arrested with the gun in his hand and he admits it&#39;s a fair cop he did it and has not regrets..does this man deserve the death sentence

how about someone like Adolf Hitler had he not comitted suicide?

yes mistakes are made and for that reason the death setence is flawed to say the least and is a very valid reason to abolish it...but in cases where there is no doubt at all and the case was extreme enough i am all for the national grid providing a solution

So what offence are you accusing him of.

Seriously, you have to look at the ingredients of the offence, before you even look at whether or not there is a prima facie case. So we need to know what the offence is.

Those ingredients (all of them) then have to be proven before you can find someone guilty of that offence.

Even if you do that, the answer is no. The death penalty is wrong. [/b][/quote]
if you mean the man that shot jerry...murder in the 1st

if you mean Hitler..well apart from the extermination of a couple of jews i guess he was just misunderstood.

jp of all the people on this forum you are one of the most level headed, willing to consider the other view. you must realise that i am generalising with examples...just trying to see if someone that is anti death has a breaking point.
i totally agree that one has to look at all the ingredients before passing sentence and i think that at least in the USA where i live it&#39;s not always a constant science. for example a black man is more likely statistically (mind you anything could be proven by statistics) to be sentence to death than a white man comitting the same crime..this is not bringing racism into the debate.
i do understand your view, believe me i wish there was no death penalty but there is. i also wish that there was a better safety net to ensure that mistakes couldn&#39;t happen (yes abolishion would be the only 100% answer) however when i see on the news stories such as Sarh Payne and the Soham girls my current view is execution of the evil scum that comitted those crimes by the most prolonged and painful way possible is the only way.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@2 January 2004 - 01:26
What is a capitol crime. Genuinely, I don&#39;t even know what it means. However you miss the point anyway. I was suggesting that crimes of passion were likely to be spur of the moment, as such the ramifications of the actions were unlikely to be a factor.

Your proof is no more than, "it is logical and sensible". That does not constitute proof. Just because you believe that something must be true does not make it so. I say again, how do you know it is a deterrent. Other than "it must be".

My point 6 was that WE MAY MAKE MISTAKES IN FINDING PEOPLE GUILTY, that is an entirely different argument from my position that it is morally wrong. It is a practical thing. How can we use the death penalty, when there are so many ways of getting the verdict wrong, never mind the sentence.

The "proof" is that I am deterred as are many others. Do you need a special study to prove that which is common sense?
Knowing of the consequences of breaking laws is a deterrent.
Proof:
Run a red light; get a traffic ticket...if ya don&#39;t want a ticket..don&#39;t run the light
Run a red light; die in a car wreck....blahblahblah
One lady rode in a High Occupancy lane and got a ticket. Her response was that she&#39;s been doing it for years and she doesn&#39;t care about this one ticket because she saved the time getting to work. She said she would do it again. She was not deterred.
It happens.
My proof is not just that it is logical and sensible. You must read everything.
I will not discuss this point of proof any longer because it like discussing why I don&#39;t touch a hot stove.

I misunderstood your point 6 later because you added "even if we get the innocence/ guilty verdict always 100% correct. This is simply ANOTHER reason for not having the death penalty."

@hobbes - I think there are folks put to death that are innocent, that is why I think death should be carried out:
If the crime is extremely heinous- ex. our very own DC Sniper case
If the proof is beyond reproach- ex. caught on camera doing the crime

In the DC Sniper case some jurors expressed they had a hard time giving John Muhammed the death penalty but in the end he could not be allowed to live. He had 2 states and Washington DC living in total fear.
As I said before it is easy to be against the penalty as an avid book reader, scholar, etc of law, when it does not affect you.
We are not in Star Trek.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Busyman@2 January 2004 - 06:01

One lady rode in a High Occupancy lane and got a ticket. Her response was that she&#39;s been doing it for years and she doesn&#39;t care about this one ticket because she saved the time getting to work. She said she would do it again. She was not deterred.
It happens.

Maybe if the consequence was that she&#39;d be put to death maybe she would stay her ass out of the HOV lane.

(sorry had to add that)

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 January 2004 - 05:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 January 2004 - 05:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 January 2004 - 06:01

One lady rode in a High Occupancy lane and got a ticket. Her response was that she&#39;s been doing it for years and she doesn&#39;t care about this one ticket because she saved the time getting to work. She said she would do it again. She was not deterred.
It happens.

Maybe if the consequence was that she&#39;d be put to death maybe she would stay her ass out of the HOV lane.

(sorry had to add that) [/b][/quote]
drastic but true

[Billy_Dean]

JP, do you believe Sadam and Osama should be executed if they were to be found guilty in a fair trial?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@2 January 2004 - 06:34
JP, do you believe Sadam and Osama should be executed if they were to be found guilty in a fair trial?

We should send them both to Glasgow to serve out life imprisonment paid for by JP.

Oh I&#39;m sorry. My name&#39;s not JP

[D4rK0Soul]

im against because i think the person should to but in jail or totured . like petofyls or whatever. throw there ass&#39; in jail and see what happens

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by Busyman
@hobbes - I think there are folks put to death that are innocent, that is why I think death should be carried out:

??????????????????????????????????????