Wich Is Your Favourite Sport?

[hobbes]

Save your money Nikki, Glucosamine Chondroitin is of no help at all. Sure, it is what cartilage is made of, but the body does not absorb it whole. It breaks it apart and has to reassemble it in the joint.

If your diet is decent, you have more than enough building blocks to create more cartilage.

The problem is that when cartilage is denuded, there are no progenitor cells available for repair.

Your problems stem from ligamentous instability, not a lack of cartilage. If your knee "locks" you may have some loose pieces of cartilage that need to be removed by endoscopy.

[NikkiD]

Originally posted by hobbes@19 January 2004 - 22:09
Save your money Nikki, Glucosamine Chondroitin is of no help at all. Sure, it is what cartilege is made of, but the body does not absorb it whole. It breaks it apart and has to reassemble it in the joint.

If your diet is decent, you have more than enough building blocks to create more cartilage.

The problem is that when cartilage is dunuded, there are no progenitor cells available for repair.

Your problems stem from ligamentous instability, not a lack of cartilage. If your knee "locks" you may have some loose pieces of cartilage that need to be removed by endoscopy.

Wow... you're good...

That's exactly the problem, and they will be fixing both - the ligament and the cartilage. According to the surgeon, there's not much sense in removing or repairing the torn meniscus while the ligament (well, tendon wrapped with reinforcement) is unstable, as it will just tear again. And the degree of lateral shift is great enough that I would appear to have damaged the ACL again. Hence the MRI - to conclude whether this is to be a hospital stay or outpatient surgery, and which surgeon will be performing the operation.

[Busyman]

I had that same knee locking problem. I would play basketball, come down wrong and it felt like my leg was broken. I would hobble to the bleachers, straighten my knee out and hear and feel a click then the pain would be gone (weird).

Your right hobbes in that Glucosamine Chondroitin does nothing for ligaments but your advice of absolutely NOT using it for damaged cartilage is not sound. Nikki you should consult your doctor's AFTER your surgery as to whether using the product won't help.

People in our situation will most likely be looking forward to arthritis. I was slightly lucky in that I can do without ACL reconstruction (most cannot). I tore mine partially because I'm bowlegged. My surgeon advised me that a reconstructed ACL will "feel" better than it actually is. Basketball player Danny Manning tore his twice in one leg, once in the other.

My meniscus, when it was injured, was wedged in my knee in a fashion that I couldn't straighten my leg out. The surgeon slipped the meniscus from in between that part of my knee and basically trimmed the damaged cartilage. I had localized anesthesia and watched the arthroscopic surgery on a monitor. During the surgery he saw that I had no ACL (which is probably why it was easy to tear my meniscus).

Again hobbes and Nikki, the ligament is absolutely the greater problem. I believe it's the reason I tore my meniscus. After that is "fixed" though Nikki, remember the arthritis that is sure to come. Glucosamine Chondroitine as a supplement has been shown in numerous independent studies to regrow cartilage.

I have not had knee problems for 7 years.
I have no ACL's.
I have been taking the supplement for awhile now.
I get some arthritis pain in extreme cold every blue moon. I only can imagine the pain had I not been taking the supplement.
My surgeon is actually amazed that I still play basketball at an extreme level.
My surgeon also told me there are some who don't recommend the supplement (due to "job security"). He is extremely blunt. My surgeon was Dr. Vetter in Maryland.

[hobbes]

Busyman,

There is popular medicine and there is proven medicine.

I will firmly stand by my statement that Glucosamine Chondroitin is totally worthless. I don't care what some medical reports say. Doctors used to treat high blood pressure with salt restriction before they understood that if the body had too much salt, it got pissed out. Medical literature is full of so much bullshit. Broccoli prevents prostate cancer, Vitamin C prevents whatever. This popular medicine crap is to give people a feeling of control over their destiny, check back in 10 years, all this shit will fade.

A balanced healthy diet is all anyone needs.

As you know, I have no agenda, just want to save Nikki some cash.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 05:32
Busyman,

There is popular medicine and there is proven medicine.

I will firmly stand by my statement that Glucosamine Chondroitin is totally worthless. I don't care what some medical reports say. Doctors used to treat high blood pressure with salt restriction before they understood that if the body had too much salt, it got pissed out. Medical literature is full of so much bullshit. Broccoli prevents prostate cancer, Vitamin C prevents whatever. This popular medicine crap is to give people a feeling of control over their destiny, check back in 10 years, all this shit will fade.

A balanced healthy diet is all anyone needs.

As you know, I have no agenda, just want to save Nikki some cash.

I respect your opinion hobbie.

My point is, because I am also a skeptic of sorts, is you don't KNOW that it DOESN'T work. I am familiar with companies that have THEIR scientists do a study for them to back up THEIR agenda. I gotcha.

At the same time it is a little irresponsible to say to a person "like" myself who is almost guaranteed to be arthritic to absolutely deny that it doesn't work.

Hell I'm scared of LASIK vision correction for some of the same reasons even though there is new Wavefront technology.

For every report that says one thing, there might be 3 that say the opposite. Tried and true medical findings have been refuted in this day and age.

I do care what medical reports say.

Ya just gotta read more than the one in your doctor's office.

[hobbes]

I just understand physiology.

All ingested substances are broken down into their basic components, not abosrbed whole.

So your Glucosamine Chondrotin is broken into to tens of thousands of little pieces and absorbed. To think that it magically reassembles in joints is a fairy tale the manufacturers tell you.

Most diets have enoungh nutrients to make this stuff, without supplementation.

All the supplements give you is the components to make cartilage, these components are abundanet in anyones normal diet. Somehow people think that the molecule is absorbed whole and transported to your joints, this is absolutely false.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 05:55
I just understand physiology.

All ingested substances are broken down into their basic components, not abosrbed whole.

So your Glucosamine Chondrotin is broken into to tens of thousands of little pieces and absorbed.  To think that it magically reassembles in joints is a fairy tale the manufacturers tell you.

Most diets have enoungh nutrients to make this stuff, without supplementation.

All the supplements give you is the components to make cartilage, these components are abundanet in anyones normal diet.  Somehow people think that the molecule is absorbed whole and transported to your joints, this is absolutely false.

Well when body builders take creatine supplements, it increases muscle water retention yet creatine is gained naturally in foods.
However one does not get enough creatine from foods to cause this to any significant degree.
You get amino acids from beef and other foods. How does it know to go help muscle growth?
How does Tylenol know where to stop the pain? It's magic that's what.

As they say in the UK

Cheers hobbes!!!

[hobbes]

Cheers, indeed!

[Skillian]

My brother used to do gymnastics pretty seriously (ever heard of Mitch Fenner Nikki? - he was his coach) and when doing a somersault he managed to put his teeth through his bottom lip and about an inch into his knee. Made me feel pretty ill... :x

[hobbes]

Seriously, all those supplements are just to make money, they have no real effect.

I would make an exception for hormones, which tell the body how to handle what it has available. Steroids are some dangerous, but very effective molecules.

Busyman, I was a very serious weightlifter 10 years ago, all I needed to go from 150 to 200 was dormatory food and some weightlifting resolve. That took only 5 months.

My mother told me that my transformation was surreal. I was accused of being on steroids. It was just hard work and dorm food, I didn't have the cash for anything else.