Well said Bic, I agree with your points.
Going to just reply to the parts where putty calls me a liar and let your post stand.
At the time of the original attack, 1 person died (the child) and up to 10 injured (3 critically). The member of Islamic Jihad died after the posting of the story I read, when he was in hospital. So I stand corrected that a terrorist did indeed die. Now, please tell us why it is ok to kill a child (and seriously wound two more, plus 8 adults minimum) in a missile attack on a civilian area? It is against international law as has been pointed out, and does nothing to further peace.Why do you lie like this? Do you think it helps your cause?
Islamic Jihad militant, Palestinian child killed in Israeli missile strike
No you didn't. I gave the link to the real PalSc fatality figures. It showed 35 for the last three months of 2000 alone.So you contest the numbers I posted? I gave you the fucking link to them!
Hamas has had numerous cease fires during periods of negotiations. The IDF however has never stopped targetting them. It's rather surprising that they do have these ceasefires, but they do none the less. The IDF prefers to continue it's attacks as they have no interest in either a ceasefire or a negiotated settlement. By provoking a response from Hamas in those periods, it entrenches it's position.Hamas wasn't planning an intifadah, it never stopped the first one.
No, the right to resist an occupying army of aggresssion. That includes suicide bombers killing troops or people working with the troops. Btw, speaking of bombs, why do the IDF use public buses to transport troops in uniform? The IDF then cries foul when that bus is bombed. Well duh, get the soldiers of the occupying regime off public buses then. But that wouldn't allow Isreal to broadcast pictures of blown up buses would it? When Hamas attacks a school bus, you will generally find that the IDF has killed palestinian children recently. Does this excuse it? Nope, but it should be a warning to the IDF to behave itself.Suicide bombings being a right preserved in international law. Oh this I'm gonna need a link to. I can't wait.
With this latest killing of a palestinian child, expect Isreali children to pay a terrible price. Something I condemn of course, but you don't comdemn the IDF doing the same.
You chose to use the site to support your case, not me. The page shows 1) that Area A was a ghetto ala' South Africa 2) Isreal never even withdrew fully from the area anyway. Your other links are of IDF army army attacks and make no mention of the settlers that remained or the daily harassment of the civilians by the army and settlers.It's the PLO site itself.
I showed you numerous news sources that showed that Israel DID leave Area A
Yes it does, on the map you posted and on the page itself.It doesn't say that Israel never withdrew completely from Area A. Another lie
I showed you the real Btselem page on PalSc losses. Remember, 35 deaths in under 3 months in 2000 alone.I showed you Btselem numbers that demonstrate that the IDF DID NOT target the PA. You think it's true because you say so?
You also said my figure of almost 4500 dead palestinians was wrong. Lets look at Btselem - 3550 up until May 03 from an arbitrary date of 87. This does not include - people who die as a result of IDF delays on medical care, people who have disappeared into Isreali custody and never heard from again (a number in the 1000's itself. Isreal had a Guantanamo long before the US), people dying due to lack of sanitation/water/healthcare due to IDF operations. Btselem also acknowledges that it cannot tally every death as it does not have the resources. So I think somewhere around 4 or 5 thousand is a fair guess.
Sigh, whatever. Your own link proves otherwise and I can't be bothered to argue whether black is white with someone of your limited faculties.And again, "Israel never withdrew". Uh huh. Too bad the PLO's own site doesn't back you up.
No it isn't. Do you know what a Canton is? Is a subdivision of the state (for the US think states or counties, in the UK think counties, in Switzerland think ... cantons!Excuse me but this is the canton argument. The pseudo states set up by SA and proposed by Isreal were meant to be autonomous states, but in reality were ghetto's and dumping grounds that were designed to be a failed system that kept the population in check.
I have read the definitions involved in Apartheid, unlike you, and the UN, human rights groups, and nation states all agree that Isreal operates an apartheid.First of all, minus 10 points for the (yet another) use of "South Africa". Ever hear of a straw man argument?
Try looking at the map you provided. It even states on the map/page that the borders are non-contiguous just in case you are too blind to notice yourself.Now, show me where the ghettos are on that map? Show me how there's no contiguous border. Show me where it is surrounded by Israeli land.
I've shown you many things, but you just don't care to listen.SHOW ME ANYTHING!
That quote is from Venom not you and I accept that. You took over my replies to him and I forgot he ever posted. You both push the same line and I conflated the two of you into one poster. My mistake.Liar. Show me where I said this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post a fucking link. I dare you. Do something because you're looking very very bad.
However, will you take this oppertunity to condemn the IDF bombing that killed and injured children this week? If you don't, my point stands and you condone it. So far, despite many chances to condemn the killings, you haven't. Do you condemn the shooting of palestinians (pensioners, children, etc) and call for IDF soldiers to face murder charges? Again, if you don't you condone it.
I am giving you the chance to make an unequivocal statement, don't pass it up or my point still stands.
The liar here is you, as well as the fascist who will not condemn the targetted killings of civilians. Dropping a missile into a heavily populated area to kill one man is targetting civilians.No. You don't get off that easily. I want everyone here to see how much of a liar you are.
Even when I did make a mistake (confusing you with Venom), my point still stands as you refuse to condemn killings and gloat over the death of one terrorist while 3 children lie dead or maimed along with up to 10 others seriously injured.
You have never condemned them. Why not? Also they are not "targetted killings", unless you admit they targetted the small child. Otherwise they are not targetted at all and are just large amounts of explosives dropped into a civilian area. In all it's illegal assasinations, the Isreali Air Force has killed more innocent people than terrorists.I never even said that I was in favour of targetted killings
Yawn, whatever. At no point in this debate have you addressed the original points. Water, land, electoral, and human rights. Isreal's use of human shields, the everyday brutality. The legality of the occupation, or anything else. Your posts have been full of irrelavent drivel, while you desperatly try to defend the indefensible.But none of it changes the fact that this 1234 person lies and so is not someone to reason with.
You are a fine example of why Isreal is doomed unless it's people open their eyes to what is being done in their name. I would rather ascribe a quote to the wrong person by mistake than have your repugnant views. By quite a large margin
Anyway, we are done. Every post of any note is telling you that you are wrong. I will leave it to them to continue to point out your lack of arguments.
To show the lack of historical knowledge and racism you embody, I leave you with this quote -
Do you agree with this quote?We were the ones who always had a settlement here and the Arabs were the nomads you tool, Arab immigrates only came here after the Zionists started developing the country in the late 19th century
. The pseudo states set up by SA and proposed by Isreal were meant to be autonomous states, but in reality were ghetto's and dumping grounds that were designed to be a failed system that kept the population in check.
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