What's Going On With The Beeb?

[j2k4]

Originally posted by hobbes+10 February 2004 - 15:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes &#064; 10 February 2004 - 15:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-leftism@10 February 2004 - 20:02
If anyone really thinks this is a victory for the government and a defeat for the BBC, they should visit the UK, pop down to their nearest local for a pint and spend a couple of hours talking to real people.

Lefty,

I think I found your problem, you get all your information from drunk people


It&#39;s all true, the BBC is evil.

You are going to love this&#33;

I don&#39;t know exactly what he said because I was a bit distracted by his evangelistic hair, but the lapel reassured me that all would be well.[/b][/quote]
Now Hobbes, that is not exactly oil on troubled waters*, my friend.

*Of course, oil on any type of water at all will get you nothing but a call-out from the Greens, so it is just as well, I suppose.

[leftism]

@hobbes

LMAO&#33;

Thats a very convincing spoof. It is a spoof.... right?

btw, if you dont like pubs then try the nearest church. You wont find any difference in opinion, thats how strong the consensus is.

@j2k4

The main point of Huttons report was to convince us, the British public, that Tony Blair did not exaggerate the case for war. This point, above all else, is paramount.

The British public are not convinced. The glaring inconsistencies between the evidence and Huttons conclusions are plain for all to see. As I&#39;ve already pointed out, now that Blair has admitted the 45 minute claim did not refer to WMD, this just vindicates Gilligans reporting even more.

Tony Blairs credibility has taken a major blow and if you think the British public are switching off the BBC in disgust you are mistaken.

So, with regards to public opinion, the real losers here are the government. No one believes a word of what they say in relation to Iraq. On the other hand public confidence in the BBC hasnt changed.

On a political level the BBC is the loser. I&#39;m sure Huttons dodgy conclusions will be used to great effect when the BBC&#39;s charter is up for re-negotiation in the near future.

You have to put this public inquiry in the context of those that went before it. The government are never to blame for anything, ever.

[j2k4]

Lefty-

I&#39;m off to work now, but again, you are trying to deflect my point and reset the focus of this thread.

I am not insisting or assuming the Beeb&#39;s viewers are, or should, leave in droves, or in disgust.

I will try to answer you later.

[vidcc]

j2 i would like to clear up a fact for you.
The BBC is not funded by the government. The money comes from the licence fee. However the government controls the amount that the BBC can charge and there are regulatory bodies that control content.( issues of moral etc.) The fee is compulsory for the ownership of equiptment able to recieve a tv signal and failure to have a valid licence can result in a fine of upto (i believe) 1000 gbp. (about &#036;1850). Failure to pay the fine could result in jail time for contempt.
Governments have often complained about political bias in the Beeb but it&#39;s usually because the stories have been less than favourable to them. The beeb has as you say earned deserved respect worldwide for it&#39;s generally honest reporting regarding news events but more so i would say for the quality of product in the entertainment field.
As for the idea that the beeb should make its own way in the world, well i pay about &#036;110 per month for the basic cable channels and stars+internet and i get 5 mins of drivling adverts every 10 mins and with all those channels there is still nothing on...so the beeb is good value for money in my opinion and i think it would be a sad day for quality when the funding is removed.

Ps. (just for j2) did you read time this month...there is a good piece on the American health system i think you would enjoy

[leftism]

Originally posted by j2k4+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>&#39;m off to work now, but again, you are trying to deflect my point and reset the focus of this thread.[/b]

Well.. I&#39;m sorry you feel that way j2k4, but that is not my intent. Your point seems to be that the BBC has been severely damaged by this episode. I&#39;m measuring &#39;damage&#39; in terms of public confidence and am trying to point out that this damage is not as severe as you believe.

<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4
I am not insisting or assuming the Beeb&#39;s viewers are, or should, leave in droves, or in disgust.[/quote]

I know that and I never claimed you were suggesting that they should. What I&#39;m saying is that if the BBC were so mortally wounded, as you suggest, then people would be leaving in droves.

The BBC is a public service broadcaster, and if the public do not feel it is providing a quality service they will vote with their feet. If we were talking about a private broadcaster the focus would be the same. What do the customers think?

If the customers are not the ones to judge whether the BBC has been truly damaged, then who should we look to instead?

[Rat Faced]

Strange how whichever government is in power complains the BBC is politicaly biased against them...usualy at the same time the opposition is doing the same.

I never got the impression the BBC was against the war; it had some Pro War programs and some Anti War, as it has to keep a "Political Balance".

Some of the commercial TV appeared anti-war (eg Channel 4), some appeared Pro war (ITV channel 3 network).....which is ironic as they are the same people at the end of the day


The Government have very little influence over the BBC due to the system at work at the moment. The License Fee is decided by an Independant Commision that looks at production costs, rivals costs and the Business Plan the BBC wishes to implement and this is rubber stamped by the Chancellor in his Budget speech.

The Government cant even get access to the accounts of the BBC...that is how far removed they are There is a huge movement going on at the moment to bring the BBC to heal by the establishment, and getting access to this is one of the methods being used. Luckily most honest politicians prefer the Independance and so far this has failed. You may wish to look here for the history of that particular fight..

The shortfall that the Commission will not cover, which is very large, has to be funded by the many other Pies the BBC has its fingers in. BBC income is around £3.38Billion, about £2.5Billion is from the License Fee. (figures from above site)

The BBC does have a commercial arm; its called the UK range of channels on Cable and Satellite, and the operation abroad (such as the USA) may be commercial, as well as making quite a lot in exports of BBC programs & retail products such as videos.

Its also heavily involved in Education with the Open University plus programming for schools and colleges to assist in education in general.

This unfortunately may now change in the very near future, as stated before in the thread.

The Government are now saying they intend to scrap the License Fee. Probably as a punishment for the BEEB over telling people things the Government didnt want them to, although quite possibly because thats the Pay Off for Rupert Murdochs media support in the election.

The Conservatives also want to look at the funding, afterall you just cannot have a "State" broadcasting system that isnt controlled by the State, the politicians get embaressed when they&#39;re caught with their pants down


This means that either:

1/ They will go commercial, which means they have to answer to the Corporates (The Advertisers) or

2/ The money will be given directly from the Government, and they will have the corresponding influence that goes with this.


As to Mr Dykes resignation....we may have to wait for The Book

[ilw]

Why go to the trouble of making a spoof and not making it funny? I didn&#39;t laugh once, it was just vaguely irritating

[Agrajag]

It may be worth bearing in mind that The BBC is a very large corporation which broadcasts a very diverse range of products. The channels include :

BBC1
BBC2
BBC3
BBC4
CBeebies
CBBC
BBC News 24
BBC Parliament
BBC World Service
BBC Radio 1
BBC Radio 2
BBC Radio 3
BBC Radio 4
BBC Radio Five Live
BBC Radio Five Live Sports Extra
1 Extra
6 Music
BBC7
BBC Asian Network

And also <<<< Added channels (RF)

In addition to the Regional variations which have their own news and current affairs programming. There are also region specific entertainment programmes and the like. This includes Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and various English regions.

There is also the large and very informative web page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ which again has massive regional and content variations.

The BBC through it&#39;s charter is committed to broadcasting at least 10% of it&#39;s content from independent producers.

Long may we have the BBC, it relies on public funding for it&#39;s survival. But I am willing to pay around £2 a week for what I get. I think it is an excellent deal, when compare to the interminable re-runs of pro/celebrity hedgehog shagging that we see elsewhere.

Cheers Auntie, thanks for everything.

[Biggles]

J2

The UK is at times a strange place and the Beeb is a much loved institution even if the licence fee rankles some - Sky costs more and has less worth watching.

The Beeb has done what is percieved as the "British thing" and taken the criticism on the chin. The people responsible for the error (one sentence in one report which, whilst not withdrawn, was not repeated) have resigned.

The Government have got what they wanted and in doing so have come across very badly and become figures of ridicule in the process. The Bremner, Bird and Fortune piece on Hutton&#39;s guide to holiday&#39;s in Iraq was very very funny (and on rival, commercial, Channel 4 too).

So the Beeb has learnt a lesson but as the Vampire photographer with the daylight flash in Terry Pratchet&#39;s book was fond of saying " what doesn&#39;t kill me makes me stronger". (Come to think about it, the book was called The Truth and was about free Press - very funny but not everybody&#39;s cup of tea.) Auntie Beeb has got up, gathered her skirts and set her jaw, she is embarrassed, but she is being rooted for.

The Government know this and in turn are now saying how much they have always admired her and been her friend and, of course, they will continue to support her independence.

[lynx]

Prior to the actual publishing of the Hutton Report, the expectation on all sides was that both the BBC and the government would come in for severe criticism, and that at the very least Geoff Hoon (Minister of Defence) would have to resign. Even the Prime Minister&#39;s children are said to have been unable to sleep because of the worry (in other words they feared for their father&#39;s position).

In the run up to the publication, Michael Howard (leader of the opposition) was having a field day. He too expected the government to be severely criticised. One must remember that he is a respected barrister in his own right, and must have examined the evidence carefully himself before committing himself to the attacks he made Tony Blair.

My point for bringing this up is not to highlight the shortcomings of the government, but to show how one sided and unsupportable the findings of the Hutton Report turn out to be. The report is now, in most circles, almost totally discredited and as more things come to light the credibility of the BBC is actually strengthened.

In the past, the Chairman of governors has been appointed by the government, and there have often been complaints of political cronyism. Whether this is true or not, the next governor will be appointed by an independent committee, which indicates that the BBC will more than ever be SEEN to be independent of government influence, another fact which should strengthen its position.