Gay Marriage

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman@21 February 2004 - 01:23

Who said I was ever eloquent? Fuck eloquent (as I scratch my nuts)!!!!


Your statements are easily refuttable.

ex,
I can sprout all types of reasons scientific reasons about why people like the color blue. I can go as so far as to say they had no choice because at birth there was a predominance of colonic in their brain. As they matured (usually in the first three years) the colonic hit their visual center causing a bluish tint.

This is the reason they have a liking of the color blue.

It cannot be because well...........they just like it.
It's proven because of the scientific analysis of the last "20 years" and my personal scientific backround.

BULLSHIT!!! (sorry if I'm not being......... eloquent.

Dude I could choose to pound on dudes in the ass if I wanted to.
I don't choose too.
There are guys who have said they have neeeever been with a woman. Gay their entire life.
What if one had a woman ...finally and....LIKED IT. Would he still be gay?

According to your "pecking order" if he chose a guy, at any time, he was born gay.

This is why your argument is hogwash to me. It goes against common sense.
If their is conclusive proof that there is "something" physically different that makes me or anyone else want to slam guys in the ass or MAKES me want to be romantic with them I wouldn't hesitate too pay attention (regardless of my religious views).

Until then this has been a hoot and holler!!!

Feel Teh Love baby

First off, I need a translation for most of that.

Second, do you throw away a whole bag of potato chips because 1 is burn't. You seem hung up on a rather trivial comment.

According to your "pecking order" if he chose a guy, at any time, he was born gay.

I'm saying that a person may lead a straight life due wanting to fit in and be normal. He may date, he might bleep the prom queen, but at some point, like college, when family is not around and he is relatively annonymous, he might attempt to dabble in his fantasies. That is why so many people come out in college. Others push to get married hoping that will chase those "bad" thoughts away. There are many anecdotes about the man with 3 children who finally tells his wife he is gay and moves out.

Why do you think suicide is so much higher in gays. They have these feeling, and it makes them guilty because they have been brought up to believe them to be sinful.

So how can you say gays choose this lifestyle when most actually fight it because of societal and family pressures.



Not EVERYONE (wait a sec, let me scratch my left nut, ahh better) who has an encounter with the same sex is a sequestered homosexual, but, perhaps like Skweeky, they have attraction for both sexes.

I think if you consider people who label themselves bisexual, you will find true bisexuals and another group that this making an effort to appear somewhat socially acceptable. You will find that later they convert to pure homosexuality.

So don't get hung up on that one line, hope that clears up that statement and your balls don't get in a twist.

Talking about common sense, how do you explain a gay priest or gay animals?

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 February 2004 - 16:30
Your link does not disprove my statement.  In fact, the question asked is wrong, she is not a hermaphrodite, but has testicular feminization which is completely different. 

She is tall with large breats which is typical for TF.
She has not been able to have children, which hermaphrodites should.


But, whether she is or not is not relevant to my point.  I meant no disrespect to her, I'm sorry Jamie.

that link does go on to discuss the symptoms you've described, which are not those of a hermaphrodite-- they used the term because it's been attached to common variations of the "jamie lee curtis is a man" legend. and hermaphrodite is the traditional layman's term to describe a whole variety of sexual ambiguities, regardless of medical accuracy. of course the link doesn't disprove your statement-- the only thing that would disprove it would be for jamie lee to spread her legs and submit to thorough examination, along with public disclosure of her hospital records, preferably on international television.

which sorta begs the question, why does anyone need to disprove your statement, when you haven't offered anything to prove it? even one single link purporting to feature a quote from jamie lee curtis or her physician admitting that she is a genetic male... well... i'm sure a lot of people would be both astonished and deeply interested to read.

[hobbes]

Wizard,

Are you saying that becoming homosexual is a choice which is effected by upbringing and experience, and is not related to genetics in any way?

Then why do homosexuals have a higher suicide rate, why are people who devote their life to Christ being found to be gay?

You say that hormones cannot make you gay or straight, just masculine or feminine and that sexual identity is a product of programming (societal?).

Who programs their kids to be gay? How do gays arise in a society where homosexual activity is punished with death? Who programmed these people?

Why do homosexuals fight thier calling. I know of several people who came out in college. They told me that they thought their feelings " would pass" and they could be "normal", but eventually they just gave in.

If I have misinterpreted your posts (the bold statements) then perhaps you can clarify.

I feel that homosexual activity in the animal kingdom, from chimpanzees to fruit bats, confirms that there is a strong genetic aspect to this phenomenon.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+21 February 2004 - 02:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC &#064; 21 February 2004 - 02:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 February 2004 - 16:30
Your link does not disprove my statement. In fact, the question asked is wrong, she is not a hermaphrodite, but has testicular feminization which is completely different.

She is tall with large breats which is typical for TF.
She has not been able to have children, which hermaphrodites should.


But, whether she is or not is not relevant to my point. I meant no disrespect to her, I&#39;m sorry Jamie.

that link does go on to discuss the symptoms you&#39;ve described, which are not those of a hermaphrodite-- they used the term because it&#39;s been attached to common variations of the "jamie lee curtis is a man" legend. of course the link doesn&#39;t disprove your statement-- the only thing that would disprove it would be for jamie lee to spread her legs and submit to thorough examination, along with public disclosure of her hospital records, preferably on international television.

which sorta begs the question, why does anyone need to disprove your statement, when you haven&#39;t offered anything to prove it? even one single link purporting to feature a quote from jamie lee curtis or her physician admitting that she is a man... well... i&#39;m sure a lot of people would be both astonished and deeply interested to read. [/b][/quote]
Yes, but would you still do her?

Not now I wouldn&#39;t, but there was a scene from A Fish Called Wanda where she looked scrumptcious. Call me queer, but I would have done her then for sure&#33;

[3RA1N1AC]

gee, i dunno. i&#39;m not really into genetic males. and according to your earlier post, being tall and having big tits is indicative of... uh... being genetically male. waitasec, that&#39;s not right...

[vidcc]

i do find it funny when people worry about homosexuals raising children because they feel that the child will grow up gay when all homosexuals are the result of a hetrosexual relationship of whatever degree.
I have read posts here saying people choose to be gay and they have a choice to not live the gay lifestyle and instead have hetrosexual relationships. To me a homosexual is a person that finds the same gender sexually exciting, just because they don&#39;t act on it doesn&#39;t make them any less a homosexual just as someone that is celebate doesn&#39;t make them any less hetrosexual.... is a 50 year old virgin gay just because they haven&#39;t had sex with someone of the opposite gender? NO.
It really doesn&#39;t matter if it&#39;s genetic or not, the fact is that homosexuality exists and as long as it involves consenting adults only why all the fuss?

[Wolfmight]

Being strait,
I tell you i really dont care. I think if it could make more people happy, then allow it. What&#39;s the harm about the same sex getting married, since they will live together anyways. A marrage wont stop anyone, but might improve some.

btw there are already gay commited relationships that raise children.

[junkyardking]

People&#39;s sexuality should not be a point of discrimination; everybody should have the same rights and privileges.

Christians have tried to claim marriage for there own, but marriage has been around along time before the religion ever existed, to argue with Christians or other religions depending on there beliefs about sexuality when it comes to this issue of dictating is a moot point, because there belief compels them to be against it unless that church/religion/belief is of a more flexible nature....

[Off topic]
I as a kid use to be a Christian, but I came to understand that it’s all bollocks, to base your understanding of the universe on a book of fairy tales, where every disaster is judgment day is naive at best...
Also most of the prophetic beliefs tend to be of centralistic nature, September 11th is a good example of this, Allot of Western Christians saw that as a sign of the judgment day ect, when something similar happens in some "foreign countries" its considered nothing of any importance...
[/off topic]


When Apathy rains as it does in the US, it gives Christians more power than they ever deserve and the only people to blame are people themselves.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Are you saying that becoming homosexual is a choice which is effected by upbringing and experience, and is not related to genetics in any way?

Yes. Genetics can make you more feminine or masculine - which have a social effect which leads to a mental effect.

Then why do homosexuals have a higher suicide rate, why are people who devote their life to Christ being found to be gay?

Suicide is a sensitive subject but one explaination for homosexuals having a higher suicide rate could be the mental stress they experience as a result of being gay e.g. society pressure (will they execpt me won&#39;t they), self questioning (am i, aren&#39;t i ) < self doubt produces massive levels of stress.

I do not for one second believe that just because you devote yourself to god you have a pure mental thought process, but i also think that living that life can be extremely stressful and often they don&#39;t have any vent for there thoughts or feelings, this can lead to execesive thinking and self doubt. In the case were they become celebate, just this act can cas tremendous damage if there is no vent e.g. if a priest has sexual feelings towards a woman he will tell himself of because it is not what he has pledged to god. After a while of this confusion sets in because he has built up such a mental block against opposite sex attraction that his mind starts looking for somewhere else to explain his feelings. In the case of going in gay their are experiences in the individuals past that explain there homosexual tendancies - even if the individual is not aware of them.

You say that hormones cannot make you gay or straight, just masculine or feminine and that sexual identity is a product of programming (societal?).

Who programs their kids to be gay? How do gays arise in a society where homosexual activity is punished with death? Who programmed these people?

This is what i mean by programming: Upbringing, past experience, situation/environment and view (outlook e.g. religious) all affect your mental patterns. These then are a series of built habits that shape your reactions to outside stimuli. Your body stores this information e.g. body posture. Your body posture is interconnected with your mental process, one affects the other and vice versa.

People do not intentionally program anyone else, it happens by your brain and body recording traumas from your environment. These traumas can be very small but they all have an effect on you. Even in an society where it is an offence - people are still affected by their own personal experience

Why do homosexuals fight thier calling. I know of several people who came out in college. They told me that they thought their feelings " would pass" and they could be "normal", but eventually they just gave in.

It is the conflict of views and internal arguements that can produce mass amounts of stress and cause terrible feelings of self doubt, in many cases it is easier to give in than to continue fighting against themselves. This does not mean its genetic it means the negative mental patterns are so strong and habitaulised that the are also impossible to break.

This is quite a uncommon view, i don&#39;t want anyone to take offence, it is my view and you do not have to accept it.

P.S - Animals have though patterns to.

[clocker]

While all this chit-chat about why a body may be gay may be entertaining, what possible relevance does it have to the topic in question?

If Christian churches choose not to sanction a gay marriage then fine, so be it.

If they want to step outside the bounds of religion and try to influence legislation on legal marriage then fuck &#39;em, their opinion carries no more weight than mine.

As an institution "Christian" marriage doesn&#39;t seem to be doing all that well anyway, why should I pay attention to the efforts of the dysfunctional?