The Matrix Trilogy Explained !

[Busyman]

Originally posted by [)arkredemption@9 March 2004 - 14:26
I have to agree that there is little reason why the sentinels would be unable to see humans, and little evidence for this in the trilogies. Besides points at which the machines chased people (which have already been mentioned), sentinels launched an attack on Zee and Charra when they were fighting against the drilling machines and succeed in killing Charra (if I remember correctly). Also, if I remember correctly sentinels killed numerous crew members in 'The Final Flight of the Osiris'.

It should also be noted that many of these people would not have simply been identifiable due to the machiens they were carrying. If the sentinels can detect machines with which they can have no affiliation how would they do this...most likely visible light, thermal imaging, or something involving magnetism associated with electrical currents. Each of these three methods could also be used to detect humans anyway.

The 'orange glow' vision I believe is not merely a way of seeing machines in general but intelligent machines and systems associated purely with the machines governed by Deus Ex Machina (essentially anything with some connection to the source). Note that when Neo was fighting Bane/Smith he could see Bane/Smith due to their connection through the source, but that he did not see the numerous electrical and mechanical systems which lined many walls of the ship and that would have continued within the walls of the ship.

I can however possibly make some other suggestions as to why they were not attacked at this point. Firstly, the machines may have been concentrating their efforts (and perhaps CPU power) on breaking through the obstructions left by the humans and finishing off any last resistance rather than killing two people who presented little or no threat to them (as I'm sure individual sentinels appear to be of little value to the machines and at various points that APU was out of ammo, jammed, damaged or under the control of a newbie who didn't have a clue). There is of course the possibility (which I suspect is true in this case) of artistic license for a particular purpose, though I would certainly not simply write it off as a 'bullshit scene'. I certainly would not begrudge the brothers for artistic licence and think that this triology has kept it to a bare minimum (as most things are explainable) whilst still being great.

I am a major fan of the trilogy and agree that the vast majority of things within the trilogy can be explained with some thought, and it is the sheer depth and complexity of the trilogy, connections running throughout it, messages, clever references to religion and internet culture, as well as opportunities for interpretation and of course the fantastic action sequences which have made this trilogy so successful. B)

Great guide btw unreal_dude . I found myself agreeing with nearly everything said within it as I have come to the same conclusions. There are a few exceptions to this however.

Firstly I'm rather unsure of the whole upgrade cookie idea. I also think, as has already been suggested in this topic, that the destruction of Smith was more due to Neo providing a very direct connection to the system through which Smith's program could be channelled to return it to the source as it was no longer required than because of a burst of energy from the machines.

Great thread everyone, keep up the discussion.

I did enjoy The Matrix for some of the same reasons: references to internet culture and the fight scenes. The next two movies pretty much muddied that to an extent.

To make the movie more thought provoking it seems the filmmakers made it somewhat nonsensical.

I find myself watching the fight scenes in Reloaded and then turning it off. Movies like Star Wars are just the opposite. I'm pretty interested through and through and that makes them great. The story is engrossing, the action is fantastic and with a decent blend of "fun".

In the dock scene, it could be said that the General was not a threat but the sentinels were still flying in a bullshit pattern. With the purpose of wiping out the humans and digging underground, this made no sense. It had to be artistic license.

Great post btw.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by vish_cometrue@9 March 2004 - 05:25
But move on.......science fiction should change with time. Anyway Star Wars was more like a 'fantasy sci-fi'. The Matrix movies are truly artistic, deeper and more thought-provoking sci-fi. Exactly the way it should be in the 21st century. Anyway we don't need concilation from a star wars lamer.

actually, no. star wars isn't my favorite sci-fi. i'd put blade runner, total recall, videodrome, brazil, a clockwork orange, alien, and quite a few others higher up on my list of favorites just because they mean more to me personally. i thought it would be pretentious to try to browbeat fanz with a list of superior films, just to show off, so i didn't.

it isn't my fault that the matrix trilogy is a shoddy pastiche of a lot of other movies, including some of the ones i listed (them, and TRON), the elements don't hang well together, and the only new twist they added was... trenchcoats? no, wait, deckard wore a trenchcoat in blade runner. "omg, neo is the messiah. that is so deep." throw him on the junk pile with all the other sci-fi messiahs from the past century... it's an old-fashioned sci-fi gimmick, and he's a one-dimensional character. it isn't about old vs new, 'cause there's nothing new to speak of in the matrix trilogy aside from the special effects. philip k dick's major writing was done in the 50s & 60s, the better sci-fi movies of the past twenty years have either adapted from him directly or borrowed heavily... and the rest comes from traditional myths, religion, and groundwork laid by cliffhanger serials, swashbucklers, cowboy movies, etc. all sci-fi is derivative, but what makes the matrix trilogy so special is that it cribs such an extensive list of notes and references, and doesn't put them to use. it promises so much in the way of plot, and delivers so little. the dialogue is just there to add a sense of importance and intellectual weight to the procession, and to kill time between fights... that's not just a problem with the matrix trilogy, it's a problem with hollywood in the 21st century. hollywood is continually losing its ability to tell a coherent story-- the matrix trilogy just happens to be the main offender in the style-over-substance category.

go ahead, accuse me or anyone else who disagrees with you, of being a whiner. i guess you've got the freedom to do so. but don't be surprised when people stoop to your level and point out that you're just in denial and you're lashing out with personal insults because you feel so rabidly protective of the overhyped little-engine-that-couldn't.

know what's a good sci-fi movie? that bill murray one... groundhog day. seriously.

[seiya_33]

come on man this is getting kinda childish , everybody knows that you hate the matrix , that you think its a crappy movie , which i personally think is a really great movie , but come on let us be , dont you think its already a bit to much , why dont you go look for people who like elves , hobbits , vampires , terminators , and start dissing their movie preferences , give us a break.




disclaimer - i didnt post this to start a war , think of it what you want , and reply
what you want.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by seiya_33@9 March 2004 - 16:51
come on man this is getting kinda childish , everybody knows that you hate the matrix , that you think its a crappy movie , which i personally think is a really great movie , but come on let us be , dont you think its already a bit to much , why dont you go look for people who like elves , hobbits , vampires , terminators , and start dissing their movie preferences , give us a break.

previous to being personally insulted, i posted twice in this thread. the first one was a joke post, boiling the plot down to "it's a trap!" the second one suggested to vish_cometrue that calling people whiners is beyond the limits of friendly discussion. those added up to little more than a few sentences, out of several pages.

my third post was in response to people suggesting i'm a braindead fanboy with no sense of what good sci-fi is, who jerks off to pictures of princess leia and can't understand the completely original, barnstorming genius that is the wachowski brothers who are only in it for the luv of Art with a capital A, and not for $$$money$$$ with dollar signs around it. *ahem* action figures *ahem* enter the matrix *ahem* direct-to-home-video releases like revisited and animatrix *ahem* bling bling.

unreal_dude and vish_cometrue invited a debate by insulting me. otherwise, i've kept my criticism over at busyman's thread, which was intended for criticism.

[seiya_33]

i really dont think my last post insulted you , it wasnt my intention , but just ignore the crap you get from the matrix buffs , and as for that thread i think i posted once in it but now i stay away from it .

[unreal_dude]

unreal_dude and vish_cometrue invited a debate by insulting me. otherwise, i've kept my criticism over at busyman's thread, which was intended for criticism. 

Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!

But u know wot any fan will not take such baseless things against his/her movie !!

i hope u ppl understand. It's all part of human behaviour !!

PEACE !!!

[unreal_dude]

Originally posted by [)arkredemption@9 March 2004 - 23:56
I have to agree that there is little reason why the sentinels would be unable to see humans, and little evidence for this in the trilogies. Besides points at which the machines chased people (which have already been mentioned), sentinels launched an attack on Zee and Charra when they were fighting against the drilling machines and succeed in killing Charra (if I remember correctly). Also, if I remember correctly sentinels killed numerous crew members in 'The Final Flight of the Osiris'.

It should also be noted that many of these people would not have simply been identifiable due to the machiens they were carrying. If the sentinels can detect machines with which they can have no affiliation how would they do this...most likely visible light, thermal imaging, or something involving magnetism associated with electrical currents. Each of these three methods could also be used to detect humans anyway.

The 'orange glow' vision I believe is not merely a way of seeing machines in general but intelligent machines and systems associated purely with the machines governed by Deus Ex Machina (essentially anything with some connection to the source). Note that when Neo was fighting Bane/Smith he could see Bane/Smith due to their connection through the source, but that he did not see the numerous electrical and mechanical systems which lined many walls of the ship and that would have continued within the walls of the ship.

I can however possibly make some other suggestions as to why they were not attacked at this point. Firstly, the machines may have been concentrating their efforts (and perhaps CPU power) on breaking through the obstructions left by the humans and finishing off any last resistance rather than killing two people who presented little or no threat to them (as I'm sure individual sentinels appear to be of little value to the machines and at various points that APU was out of ammo, jammed, damaged or under the control of a newbie who didn't have a clue). There is of course the possibility (which I suspect is true in this case) of artistic license for a particular purpose, though I would certainly not simply write it off as a 'bullshit scene'. I certainly would not begrudge the brothers for artistic licence and think that this triology has kept it to a bare minimum (as most things are explainable) whilst still being great.

I am a major fan of the trilogy and agree that the vast majority of things within the trilogy can be explained with some thought, and it is the sheer depth and complexity of the trilogy, connections running throughout it, messages, clever references to religion and internet culture, as well as opportunities for interpretation and of course the fantastic action sequences which have made this trilogy so successful. B)

Great guide btw unreal_dude . I found myself agreeing with nearly everything said within it as I have come to the same conclusions. There are a few exceptions to this however.

Firstly I'm rather unsure of the whole upgrade cookie idea. I also think, as has already been suggested in this topic, that the destruction of Smith was more due to Neo providing a very direct connection to the system through which Smith's program could be channelled to return it to the source as it was no longer required than because of a burst of energy from the machines.

Great thread everyone, keep up the discussion.

Nice post [)arkredemption. Thanks for the encouragement !!!

B)

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!

https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170

let's see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80's." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i'd say that whole post is pretty insulting. it's not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.

and it isn't your movie. it's the wachowski bros' and warner bros' movie. you're just some guy who watched it.

[Manny Roscoe]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+10 March 2004 - 01:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 10 March 2004 - 01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man &#33;&#33; Hold on your horse for a sec &#33;&#33; When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason &#33;&#33; All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including &#33;&#33;

https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170

let&#39;s see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80&#39;s." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i&#39;d say that whole post is pretty insulting. it&#39;s not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.

and it isn&#39;t your movie. it&#39;s the wachowski bros&#39; and warner bros&#39; movie. you&#39;re just some guy who watched it. [/b][/quote]
Preach.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+10 March 2004 - 01:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 10 March 2004 - 01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man &#33;&#33; Hold on your horse for a sec &#33;&#33; When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason &#33;&#33; All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including &#33;&#33;

https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170

let&#39;s see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80&#39;s." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i&#39;d say that whole post is pretty insulting. it&#39;s not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.

and it isn&#39;t your movie. it&#39;s the wachowski bros&#39; and warner bros&#39; movie. you&#39;re just some guy who watched it. [/b][/quote]

Stop it&#33;&#33;&#33; You are making unreal&#39;s stock in Warner go down&#33;&#33;&#33;