Can The Theories Of...

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by hobbes@6 March 2004 - 19:47
A part of the brain is active when we fart as well, no big deal. 

Religion is a creation of fear, that simple.  I imagine that with functional MRI and other methods we will find that praying is closely associated with the "fear" center.

Without fear, God is irrelevant.

"Possession" clearly is a case of fear which exceeds the persons ability to cope with it. "Exorcism" utilizes the power of "faith" to act as a placebo, to bring peace to a conflicted mind.  Just like a suger pill will cure a headache, if you believe that you have just taken an aspirin.

Could these theories benefit the entire population when disconnected with religion and seen rather as a tecnique for living a healthy and happy life.

Yes, they are called "Philosophies".

Fear is a product of misunderstanding, some religious teachers misunderstand god and proceed to teach people their misunderstanding, the result is fear. Furthermore, i don't think that people that are afraid of commiting sin are afraid of god, they are afraid of what will happen to them as a result of the sin, they are afraid of suffering. Being afraid of suffering is healthy, selfish but healthy, it can make you consious of what harm you bring to others.

That is an assumtion that other spirits don't exist. It sounds like creationists disputing evolution on the grounds that it is not as god tells it. Disputing the existence of other entities on the basis of scientific understanding, which has not fully researched the subject or proven the non-existence of spirits, is just the same.

Edit - A technique not a philosophy, religions have techniques all well as philosophies.

@yonki: I was using the term 'theories of God' to mean (all) religion. When you say they who do you mean, not all christians i assume.

@alex h: I like the pic, it is an interesting idea and it makes sense of the phrase 'we are all children of god', sadly i don't think there is such an easy answer to that question.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@8 March 2004 - 21:14
Fear is a product of misunderstanding, some religious teachers misunderstand god and proceed to teach people their misunderstanding, the result is fear. Furthermore, i don't think that people that are afraid of commiting sin are afraid of god, they are afraid of what will happen to them as a result of the sin, they are afraid of suffering. Being afraid of suffering is healthy, selfish but healthy, it can make you consious of what harm you bring to others.

So when I fear death, that is just a misunderstanding? Oh thank goodness.

In life, we "fear" or avoid circumstances that can cause harm. We fear falling from a tree because it will hurt. We mentally cope with this fear by not climbing trees.

If only all of our fears were so easily dodged.

Most people have this little fear called DEATH, as no one knows what awaits them. Eternal silence, re-incarnation, whatever. But we all fear death because it is something out of our control and a certainty.

Unlike the tree, we cannot mentally resolve our fear of death by avoiding it. So in order to cope, we create a God who tells us that all will be well, and we hope that if enough people agree with us then we can make it true.

Fear created the NEED for a God. Without this fear "religious teachers" would not exist because we wouldn't need religion.

Fear is not a simple matter of misunderstanding and confusion. By the way, who tells these religious teachers what is correct and what is a misunderstanding? Maybe God needs to work on his communication skills to avoid such trangressions.

"Hey, it appears Hobbes fell off a 50 story building? How is he? Well he and the ground had a little misunderstanding."

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by hobbes+9 March 2004 - 00:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 9 March 2004 - 00:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@8 March 2004 - 21:14
Fear is a product of misunderstanding, some religious teachers misunderstand god and proceed to teach people their misunderstanding, the result is fear. Furthermore, i don&#39;t think that people that are afraid of commiting sin are afraid of god, they are afraid of what will happen to them as a result of the sin, they are afraid of suffering. Being afraid of suffering is healthy, selfish but healthy, it can make you consious of what harm you bring to others.

So when I fear death, that is just a misunderstanding? Oh thank goodness.

In life, we "fear" or avoid circumstances that can cause harm. We fear falling from a tree because it will hurt. We mentally cope with this fear by not climbing trees.

If only all of our fears were so easily dodged.

Most people have this little fear called DEATH, as no one knows what awaits them. Eternal silence, re-incarnation, whatever. But we all fear death because it is something out of our control and a certainty.

Unlike the tree, we cannot mentally resolve our fear of death by avoiding it. So in order to cope, we create a God who tells us that all will be well, and we hope that if enough people agree with us then we can make it true.

Fear created the NEED for a God. Without this fear "religious teachers" would not exist because we wouldn&#39;t need religion.

Fear is not a simple matter of misunderstanding and confusion. By the way, who tells these religious teachers what is correct and what is a misunderstanding? Maybe God needs to work on his communication skills to avoid such trangressions.

"Hey, it appears Hobbes fell off a 50 story building? How is he? Well he and the ground had a little misunderstanding." [/b][/quote]
Fear of death is misunderstanding, thinking that its a bad thing and not accepting it is what causes fear of death because if you really understood the nature of life you would not fear death. People fear death for a number of reasons but the root is mis-understanding.

Fearing of falling from a tree is a built up experience and it is similar to how phobias are built, you have a bad experience and that leads you to not wanting to do it again. This experience plays on your mind when ever you see a tree so you built up a habitual thought that tree are scarey or bad. In essence your mind is reacting due to previous experience to a thing that is no longer threatening. Due to previous experience you have developed a concept, that is not neccessarily correct (mis-understanding), that trees are dangerous. Trees in them selves are not dangerous many people climb trees and don&#39;t get hurt, so fear of them is due to personal mis-understanding produced from previous experience.

Maybe just maybe god is not this psychological support mechanism that you suggest and maybe it is this concept that different religions talk about and prey to and revere. I am not looking to convert anyone. How do you know your right, do you understand this universe better than anyone else, surely thats just ignorant arrogance. I am sorry but fear is not the creater of god or good religious teachers fear is an emotion and emotions if recognised properly are all the same by nature. To be a good religious teacher you should be the master of your emotions and recognise that fear is the product of a mis-understanding of your self and something else e.g. duality. This is a big subject that is best explained by someone who really understands it, i only have a limited amount of knowledge and experience on the subject.

If someone where to tell the religious teacher they had misunderstood then there would no longer be any mis-understanding provided the teacher acknowleged thier mistake. Maybe god doesn&#39;t need to work on his communication maybe its us that need to open our ears.

[Alex H]

I don&#39;t have a fear of death. I have no idea what happens when one dies and neither does anyone else, so without any reliable information to go on, I am going to reserve my opinion on the matter until I die.

Never have any expectations. You will constantly be surprised and never be disapointed. B)

(Thats my view on death. It does not nessecarily apply to every situation, however it is remarkably comforting when confronted with the genuinly unknown.)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@9 March 2004 - 02:15
Fear of death is misunderstanding, thinking that its a bad thing and not accepting it is what causes fear of death because if you really understood the nature of life you would not fear death. People fear death for a number of reasons but the root is mis-understanding.

I never said "death" was "bad", I said is an uncontrollable unknown.&nbsp; If I were to lock you in a car bound in rope and set you rolling down a hill towards a cliff, you would be afraid right?&nbsp; So you pretend that a loving God is actually controlling the car and will guide you safely to the bottom.&nbsp; This is your psychological defense mechanism to deal with a situation that has a known end and a situation you are unable to do anything about.

I don&#39;t create God, I just hope the cliff is only a foot high.&nbsp;

Maybe death is a "bad" thing or maybe it is a "good" thing, nobody knows.&nbsp; We fear what we do not know, that is why we are afraid, at night, when we hear those sounds coming from the cellar.

Fearing of falling from a tree is a built up experience and it is similar to how phobias are built, you have a bad experience and that leads you to not wanting to do it again. This experience plays on your mind when ever you see a tree so you built up a habitual thought that tree are scarey or bad. In essence your mind is reacting due to previous experience to a thing that is no longer threatening. Due to previous experience you have developed a concept, that is not neccessarily correct (mis-understanding), that trees are dangerous. Trees in them selves are not dangerous many people climb trees and don&#39;t get hurt, so fear of them is due to personal mis-understanding produced from previous experience.

How do you distort an abstract concept of impact velocity=initial velocity + acceleration* time to equate to a fear of trees. That is just ridiculous.&nbsp; I don&#39;t have to fall from a tree to know that hurts, I just have to understand Newtonian physics.&nbsp; Chosing not to climb a tree is a matter of risk versus benefit.&nbsp; I might want an apple, but I must recognize that a fall is possible.&nbsp; I enjoy climbing trees, I was just giving an example.&nbsp; Phobias, btw, are defined as irrational fears

Maybe just maybe god is not this psychological support mechanism that you suggest and maybe it is this concept that different religions talk about and prey to and revere. I am not looking to convert anyone. How do you know your right, do you understand this universe better than anyone else, surely thats just ignorant arrogance. I am sorry but fear is not the creater of god or good religious teachers fear is an emotion and emotions if recognised properly are all the same by nature. To be a good religious teacher you should be the master of your emotions and recognise that fear is the product of a mis-understanding of your self and something else e.g. duality.

Since most religions are based on "do what I say and you will be rewarded" and I have clearly explained how fear might drive us to create such a coping mechanism, your "maybe just maybe" probably isn&#39;t.

I&#39;m not saying I&#39;m right, I just admit to myself that there is a logical explanation for the creation of God.&nbsp; I can&#39;t believe the fairy tales that are told to me.&nbsp; I would like to, no, I would LOVE to, I just can&#39;t.


If someone where to tell the religious teacher they had misunderstood then there would no longer be any mis-understanding provided the teacher acknowleged thier mistake. Maybe god doesn&#39;t need to work on his communication maybe its us that need to open our ears.

Nice platitude.

To be honest, you sound like a young man who has or had a mentor who has strongly influenced you.&nbsp; Your knowledge is a hodge-podge of Freudian psychology and Eastern philosophy and it strikes me as a bit confused.

When the bunny rabbit stares into the teeth of the wolf, there is no "misunderstanding about death" going on, hell rabbits don&#39;t even understand the concept of death.&nbsp; But they have this thing called the sympathic nervous system that pours out norephinephrine and our mouths dry, pupils constrict, sweat glands gush and our hearts pound as we get the hell out of there. That is fear, baby..

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Alex H@9 March 2004 - 03:56
I don&#39;t have a fear of death. I have no idea what happens when one dies and neither does anyone else, so without any reliable information to go on, I am going to reserve my opinion on the matter until I die.

Never have any expectations. You will constantly be surprised and never be disapointed. B)

(Thats my view on death. It does not nessecarily apply to every situation, however it is remarkably comforting when confronted with the genuinly unknown.)

We would all go insane if we thought about death on a daily basis, so we push it to the back, after all, we are young, and watch soccer.

Let me put a gun to your head Alex, let me cock the trigger and hear you say "Do it man, this will probably be fun".

You may say, but I haven&#39;t fullfilled my goals here. So what, death deals in eternity not in a piddly few human years and pointless accomplishments.

In a million years, who will care if Alex didn&#39;t finish college, much less in a billion or trillion or zillion or try a trillion to the zillionth power. That is what we are facing in death, eternity baby, eternity.

You ready to die Alex? Why do you hesitate. Ah, the delusional immortality of the young. Come talk to me when you are 78 and experiencing a sudden chest pressure and numbness.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Stop being so darn logical hobbes, why not believe a fairy tale or two it could do you a world of good.

My point was that fear is an emotional reaction to an outside stimuli and that with an understanding of the nature of emotion you are not as prone to reacting to disturbing events.

There is a zen buddhist story about an archer who aquired a student, this student under went 3 years intensive training and decided that he was the best archer there ever was, His master decided to test this theory and took him to the side of a very high cliff. He said try and hit this pice of wood that i throw out but is student couldn&#39;t even pull the arrow out of his quiver because he was shaking so much due to the height of the cliff and his proximity to the edge. His master walked to the edge chucked the piece of wood and fired three arrows into it while remaining completely calm.

So you can learn to understand emotion and not react to certain situations, Thein my point that fear is not fundamental to the existence of god because it is an emotion that if understood properly brings you closer to god.... Don&#39;t know if that makes sense, i could probably explain it better.

Sorry about the long story.

[lynx]

If God has been around for billions of years, won&#39;t he have evolved into something else by now?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by lynx@9 March 2004 - 22:43
If God has been around for billions of years, won&#39;t he have evolved into something else by now?

Well, guess I&#39;ve been flushed from the thicket and by an Earthling to boot. I must be losing my touch.

[internet.weather]

Originally posted by lynx@9 March 2004 - 21:43
If God has been around for billions of years, won&#39;t he have evolved into something else by now?

Only if you think that God lives within the concept of time and the human understanding of it at that. Where it runs at a constant speed and always in the same direction. Given that we now believe that to be incorrect and relative then why should we think that God lives within our limited frame of reference ? Or within any frame of reference for that matter. Just because we believe that we do ?

We are young as a species (for h). FFS we have only been writing things down for a few thousand years in any meaningful way. We have only been using verbal communication for slightly longer, in universal terms. Why do we think we have sussed it all out already ?

Your average 14 year old pretty much has the world sussed. Turns out he / she may be wrong about a few things, but they only find that out later on. No point in explaining it to them, coz they ain&#39;t listening. They have to learn it for themselves.