Can The Theories Of...

[hobbes]

Originally posted by J'Pol@17 March 2004 - 01:57
It is heartening to find that your agnosticism is not missionary. In spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

You're on a discussion forum, laddy, so I assume you care to discuss such matters, particularly if you participate in such a thread.

Now, if I come knocking at your door, that is another matter. You will be heartened to know that one of my co-workers, whose wife recently died of breast cancer, is one such faith bound individual, and I didn't say word one about my views on the "god" subject to him.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@17 March 2004 - 02:01
Firstly it is the destruction of delusions that helps you to understand your fundamental nature, you would not fear death if you understood the true nature of existance.

Platitude.  Tell me what "delusions" I have.  I would strongly argue that I have studied the many ways that people come to grips with diffucult issues and I have dissected out the core.  The "core" is to get enough people to echo your thoughts and this will create reality.

I am a delusion breaker, not creator.  I am honest with myself, that is all I can be.

Secondly, i am not saying i can do it, i am saying that is what is taught in buddhism, and many have achieved that level.

Lots of people believe a lot of things, doesn't mean they are right.  It means they just we able to "buy" into the concept.

Thirdly, i did not mention god.

Delusions don't require a God.  Maybe you are into this re-incarnation jibberish.  You're bad, you come back ill and unlucky.  You are good,you get the opposite.  Whatever?  You only WANT to believe that, there isn't any evidence of this at all.  None, nothing.  And it doesn't even explain how we got here.  And where do "new" people come from?

I consider myself as having faith, possibly not pure. That is only through experience not through what i have been taught by one book or another. Of course we have no way of knowing, but i believe that you don't give your self a chance to know without experience of some sort.

I didn't "warp" to where I am.  I tried on many different coats before deciding on the one I have on now.  You must understand that I WANT to believe in something, but nothing seems to capture my "belief".

As you have mentioned in another thread, morals are morals with religion or without, so good luck to you. My only thought is that if you don't open a door you will never know what is on the other side. That sounds shit but if you can only know through experience and you dismiss it so you can't experience how can you ever know.
Been there, done that.<----my platitude

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes+17 March 2004 - 02:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes &#064; 17 March 2004 - 02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol@17 March 2004 - 01:57
It is heartening to find that your agnosticism is not missionary. In spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

Your on a discussion forum, laddy, so I assume you care to discuss such matters, particularly if you participate in such a thread.

Now, if I come knocking at your door, that is another matter. You will be heartened to know that one of my co-workers, whose wife recently died of breast cancer, is one such faith bound individual, and I didn&#39;t say word one about my views on the "god" subject to him.[/b][/quote]
How does being on a discussion board make any difference. Sharing of thoughts openly should not be dependent on the medium on which they are shared. As such I treat this in exactly the same way as I would if we were discussing the matter in my front parlor.

Given that we are unlikely to meet or discuss these matters in any way other than through the interweb, I feel this is only appropriate. If you disagree I am saddened, but I can live with it.

Two more things, if you don&#39;t mind. They relate to spelling and respect. The words should be

Laddie

God

If one refers to a supreme being, whether convinced of her existence or not, it seems only right to capitalize.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@17 March 2004 - 02:01
Firstly it is the destruction of delusions that helps you to understand your fundamental nature, you would not fear death if you understood the true nature of existance.

Platitude.&nbsp; Tell me what "delusions" I have.&nbsp; I would strongly argue that I have studied the many ways that people come to grips with diffucult issues and I have dissected out the core.&nbsp; The "core" is to get enough people to echo your thoughts and this will create reality.

<span style='color:red'>Delusions come from how you experience this reality, how attached you are to your body and worldly things, thousands and thousands of life times of built up perceptions of reality. Once again i am not saying that i understand this level but many people have achieved it.

I am a delusion breaker, not creator.&nbsp; I am honest with myself, that is all I can be.</span>

What is then true honesty, how do you know if your really being honest if you can&#39;t see the fundamental nature of existence? Like internet weather said in another thread we are young in this universe and understand little of it, how can you be sure what your seing is reality?

I am also not interested in delusions, i try to avaiod them at all costs.

Secondly, i am not saying i can do it, i am saying that is what is taught in buddhism, and many have achieved that level.

Lots of people believe a lot of things, doesn&#39;t mean they are right.&nbsp; It means they just we able to "buy" into the concept.

Buddhism is not something you buy in to it is a practise not just a philosophy, one where you do specific exercises to break down your delusions and understand the true nature of the mind.

Yes, lots of people practise different things, many also misunderstand what they are being taught or teaching. However there a few teachers out there who actually know what they are doing and can teach it.
&nbsp;
Thirdly, i did not mention god.
Delusions don&#39;t require a God.&nbsp; Maybe you are into this re-incarnation jibberish.&nbsp; You&#39;re bad, you come back ill and unlucky.&nbsp; You are good,you get the opposite.&nbsp; Whatever?&nbsp; You only WANT to believe that, there isn&#39;t any evidence of this at all.&nbsp; None, nothing.&nbsp; And it doesn&#39;t even explain how we got here.&nbsp; And where do "new" people come from?

Again how can you say it is jibberish with out experince? Many buddhist teachers have recounted there past lives, also children sometimes remeber large parts of their past lives. Its not about whether your good or bad its about the karma you create from your actions to others and to yourself. There are explanations as to how we got here and where do &#39;new&#39; people come from, but i will leave it up to you to find them.

I consider myself as having faith, possibly not pure. That is only through experience not through what i have been taught by one book or another. Of course we have no way of knowing, but i believe that you don&#39;t give your self a chance to know without experience of some sort.

I didn&#39;t "warp" to where I am.&nbsp; I tried on many different coats before deciding on the one I have on now.&nbsp; You must understand that I WANT to believe in something, but nothing seems to capture my "belief".

So maybe you&#39;ve tried on different coats but have you actually worn them for a day or a week to see how they really feel.

As you have mentioned in another thread, morals are morals with religion or without, so good luck to you. My only thought is that if you don&#39;t open a door you will never know what is on the other side. That sounds shit but if you can only know through experience and you dismiss it so you can&#39;t experience how can you ever know.
Been there, done that.<----my platitude

[hobbes]

In real life people are not always interested in sharing thoughts, so I don&#39;t force them down their throats.

Here, that is the purpose, to take a subject and defend our view points.

Quibbling spelling makes you seem more interested in the details than concepts, particularly since "God" has been capitalisized throughout the entire thread. Almost strikes one as being a bit dishonest. Btw, perhaps you could explain this to Wizardmon as he has done the same.

Thirdly, i did not mention god.

Let us exercise a little discipline and stay on the topic. If a word truly confuses you, I will be glad to clarify. Otherwise, correcting typos is nothing but rude.

[hobbes]

If I don&#39;t understand reality, how come Buddists do? You honestly don&#39;t even understand what you are talking about. You seem enamored of this Eastern culture gibberish. It is the same game as Western religion and in the end relies on a leap of faith. As I postulated before, you are a young vulnerable man, exploring and attempting to clutch to this "at peace" sales pitch.

As far a recounting past lives, that is just "wishful thinking". How can they prove it? I dream of many things, are they the real, no.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Vulnerable? wtf are you geting off on this.

It has nothing to do with culture.

No leaping required. Take things at your own pace and see what you can find out yourself, it is the practise not the philosophy that leads to understanding.

How do you know i haven&#39;t found some degree of peace and that is the reason i object to you dismissing it so readily.

The object is not to prove anything to you, although i think with time that these phenomena can be proven, it just needs time, which you oviously don&#39;t have or want to give to it.

Acheiving buddhahood is understanding the true nature of reality, buddhas then taught techniques to unenlightened people to help them achieve it, this info is still accessable now. Buddhism is different to other religions in that you can become buddha but you can&#39;t become God.

[hobbes]

Whatever. I just can&#39;t see how these people can understand reality better than I can. Enough brainwashing will convince anyone of anything and in the end it is still shit.

I think we have hit an impasse, talk at you later.