Madrid Terrorism/spanish Election

[mrcall1969]

Got to agree with Leftism on this one. Spain went to a war that the majority of its citizens didn't want. The government then tried to deflect the blame of the bombings in Madrid to ETA, in my opinion to try and deflect the outrage that would be caused away from the government.

The PP losing is what democracy and politics is all about, the people didn't like what the government was doing and voted against them.

"This supposedly indicates the willingness of the Spanish people (80-90% against supporting America in Iraq) "supporting America" appears to be the real reason that this thread was started.

[hobbes]

So the people of Spain opposed supporting America in Iraq.

The government went against these wishes and drew the attention of Al-queda.

In response, Al-Queda killed the people of Spain.

The Popular party was favored to remain in power until the bombing.

The people voted out the government that was a threat to Al Queda.

So, Al-Queda, by killing the very Spanish people who opposed the war caused these same people to oust their Al Queda hostile government. That is what you would call a victory for Al-Queda.

Unless, of course, the Popular party was not going to win, bombing or not.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 March 2004 - 03:27
So the people of Spain opposed supporting America in Iraq.

The governemnt went against these wishes and drew the attention of Al-queda.

In response, Al-Queda killed the people of Spain.

The Popular party was favored to remain in power until the bombing.

The people voted out the government that was a threat to Al Queda.

So, Al-Queda, by killing the very Spanish people who opposed the war caused these same people to oust their Al Queda hostile government. That is what you would call a victory for Al-Queda.

Unless, of course, the Popular party was not going to win, bombing or not.

Hobbes, no, the MAJORITY of people in Spain didn't want to go to war with Iraq. That doesn't mean they support Al-Quada.

The government that supported the war on Iraq, without the backing of the electorate brought about their own downfall. It's not about the war on terrorism or supporting America, it's internal politics. It is really something that outside nations need to keep out of and stop treating it in a "they're with them or us" sort of fashion.

Unless of coure the US think they own everything European.

[hobbes]

Never said anything of the sort.

Just pointing out that by killing innocent people, Al Queda was able to achieve exactly what it wanted.

That is all I said.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 March 2004 - 04:52
Never said anything of the sort.

Just pointing out that by killing innocent people, Al Queda was able to achieve exactly what it wanted.

That is all I said.

Sorry, but by bolding certain words in your post made it seem sort of dramatic, maybe thats an American thing?

Think of this though, if Spain had gone with the majority of its citizens wishes, would there still be 200 of its citizens with us tonight???

I've just found out that someone I have socialised with and did the same job as, has perished in the bombings. I could be next, I'm shocked, vbut I still don't want to fight Iraq, am I a coward or a supporter of terrorism? no I just want to do my job and get on wiith my life and let America do its own thing and let the whole middle east do its own thing. just stop mixing in things you dont know anything about

I work in what would be considered a pretty high risk attack for Al-Queada (sp)

I would fight and give up my life for lots of things, war in Iraq is not one of them.

Why should the actions of the government that I voted for at the time make me a greater taget in a "war" that I do NOT want? does that make me coward??

[hobbes]

The "bold" was done to show the irony that the very people who opposed such action became the victims of Al-Queda. That is how terrorism works, and it worked very effectively here.

What is with the American thing, that does you no credit. And contrary to popular belief Americans do "do" irony.

Pardon the dueling edits, but I have NEVER implied that Spaniards are anything other than people. Don't put words in my mouth.

I merely stated that Al-Queda has to be pleased with their effort.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 March 2004 - 05:06
The "bold" was done to show the irony that the very people who opposed such action became the victims of Al-Queda. That is how terrorism works, and it worked very effectively here.

What is with the American thing, that does you no credit. And contrary to popular belief Americans do "do" irony.

Pardon the dueling edits, but I have NEVER implied that Spaniards are anything other than people. Don't put words in my mouth.

I merely stated that Al-Queda has to be pleased with their effort.

Hobbes, that is exactly the arguement. If the government of the people had listened to them, then they wouldn't have got involved, hence there wouldn't have been any bombings in Madrid. If the US wants to wage war in Iraq then go ahead, but please don't bring anyone else into it.

I am probably more at risk than you of an attack, do you get searched every morning before you get into your place of work? does your car get searched?? that is the reality of getting involved in a phoney war|!

[hobbes]

My point was that Al Queda got what it wanted by killing innocent people, that was it. Nothing between the lines, a simple statement.

As for Spain's involvement in the war, that was the fault of their government, period. The US did not make them go.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 March 2004 - 05:31
My point was that Al Queda got what it wanted by killing innocent people, that was it. Nothing between the lines, a simple statement.

As for Spain's involvement in the war, that was the fault of their government, period. The US did not make them go.

OK, so you are saying it was the Spanish governments fault for going to war that killed 200 of their citizens (including someone that I have socialised with) ??

Just like if an attack here in the UK would be the UK governments fault, or GWB's fault int the US??

[Busyman]

Originally posted by mrcall1969+16 March 2004 - 00:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mrcall1969 &#064; 16 March 2004 - 00:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@16 March 2004 - 05:31
My point was that Al Queda got what it wanted by killing innocent people, that was it. Nothing between the lines, a simple statement.

As for Spain&#39;s involvement in the war, that was the fault of their government, period. The US did not make them go.

OK, so you are saying it was the Spanish governments fault for going to war that killed 200 of their citizens (including someone that I have socialised with) ??

Just like if an attack here in the UK would be the UK governments fault, or GWB&#39;s fault int the US?? [/b][/quote]
If Spain&#39;s involvement in Iraq led to the bombing then it is merely cause and effect. It is not America&#39;s fault nor Spain&#39;s fault. Ultimately is was Spain&#39;s decision to go to war. The bombing was an effect of Spain going to war.

If the voter&#39;s changed party ties merely because of the bombings, then they are cowards and gave the terrorists what they wanted. This will probably lead to more terrorism if a demand or threat from Al Qaeda is not met.

If they changed party ties because they disagreed with going to war with Iraq that is entirely different but unfortunately it makes Al Qaeda look like they are getting what they wanted anyway.

It&#39;s win, win for Al Qaeda

Lose, Lose for Spain.