Against All Enemies.........

[Busyman]

Originally posted by ilw@1 April 2004 - 18:35
I have to disagree, obviously posting someones photo for the purpose of ridicule is out of line, but i saw those posts j2 made before leftism responded and it was perfectly obvious to me at the time (given the last few threads they've 'discussed' things in) that they were nothing but incitement. Imo the first move in this thread was by j2 and some form of escalation was almost inevitable. Every other thread where they argued may have been completely the opposite situation, but i'm not inclined to go through them to find out.


As to what leftism does on the rest of the board or how much personal information he divulges, to me thats neither here nor there. I don't give out too much info about myself, and there are no photos of me accessible to any of you (i think). I never post in the lounge and really don't see the attraction, so imo if leftism comes here almost solely for intelligent debate then i don't see the problem. Maybe this means that he and I are harder to personally attack, but thats not my intention and i don't think it's his, so its pretty meaningless.
I also don't believe anyone on this board has an agenda to forward, and i don't really understand how they could actually have one.

I don't see what the hoopla is either. After repeated trolling I chose to ignore her. I think you are wrong about ole Lefty though. What's funny is she thinks she is harming someone when in fact it makes her look like an ass.

I've seen the j2 photo before as well and I doubt he's harmed by it. Lefty has made remarks to me regarding crap from a different thread and I can't fathom what 'harm' she thinks she could inflict.

It's the fact what she's "trying" to do that makes talking to her rather pointless.

Ignoring her nullifies her entirely.

[ilw]

she or he ? (or both )

he was always the impression i had

[hobbes]

Originally posted by ilw@1 April 2004 - 23:35
I have to disagree, obviously posting someones photo for the purpose of ridicule is out of line, but i saw those posts j2 made before leftism responded and it was perfectly obvious to me at the time (given the last few threads they've 'discussed' things in) that they were nothing but incitement. Imo the first move in this thread was by j2 and some form of escalation was almost inevitable. Every other thread where they argued may have been completely the opposite situation, but i'm not inclined to go through them to find out.


As to what leftism does on the rest of the board or how much personal information he divulges, to me thats neither here nor there. I don't give out too much info about myself, and there are no photos of me accessible to any of you (i think). I never post in the lounge and really don't see the attraction, so imo if leftism comes here almost solely for intelligent debate then i don't see the problem. Maybe this means that he and I are harder to personally attack, but thats not my intention and i don't think it's his, so its pretty meaningless.
I also don't believe anyone on this board has an agenda to forward, and i don't really understand how they could actually have one.

ILW,

That was my point, that was my only point. People can argue, but obviously posting a photo for the purpose of ridicule is inappropriate. Case closed.

The key here is that you don't go into the lounge where people have revealed themselves in a personal manner, (whether it be a picture, a story about a medical condition, or admitting to having a problem and seeking advice) and drag that into another forum as a means to humiliate or demean them.

It is unfair, cowardly and undermines the intent of the forum. The intent being to have fun and to be able to discuss sometimes sensitive topics without fear that someone is going to take your honest post and use it for ridicule. This crosses the line of propriety.

As you say ILW, the thread may have been escalating, but people need to know where to stop.

As to comments about personal information, that discussion had to do with how people who may disagree on topics or philosophies can still like the other person when they get to know the human side. It also gives one the ability to "understand" why they post as they do. It is not an imperative nor a requirement, but it can turn an enemy into a friend.

note: intentional he/she comments are jpolisms

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes@2 April 2004 - 01:04


note: intentional he/she comments are jpolisms

You, my currently lycanthropic (normally lagomorph) friend would know this only too well.

There seems little point in highlighting the facts to someone who has little or no regard for them, why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good entrenched position. If Leftism chooses to stick to his, her or it's fantasies then that is a matter for them.

The rest of us can just read the relevant threads and make our own judgment on who said what, to whom.

I suspect that no matter how many people present whatever weight of evidence, it will make no difference. The beauty of being the "right man" is that one's beliefs are absolute and beyond the ken of lesser mortals.

[jetje]

nice readings this all guys, may i remind you all to the pinned rules for this part of the forum. Please debate without personal insults etc.....

Have fun

[leftism]

Well.. thats quite a bit for me to get through. I'll try to avoid writing a novel and take the most important point from each of you.

Originally posted by hobbes+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Maybe we should make fun of someones heart condition, or anothers limp, or the pimple on that picture they posted.[/b]

j2k4 chased me around this thread provoking me in a childish manner. I posted his photo to show that this kindergarten crap was coming from a middle aged man. A "name and shame tactic" if you will.

You&#39;re comparing that to making fun of people with health problems? This is why I don&#39;t believe you&#39;re sincere hobbes.

There have been occasions when I&#39;ve heeded your advice because I thought you were talking sense from a non-biased position. This is not one of them and I&#39;m sorry to say that I&#39;ve lost a lot of respect for you.

Originally posted by j2k4+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>But I have never attacked you, and I have not entered into any go-&#39;rounds with you absent some sort of provocation.[/b]

Originally posted by j2k4

Originally posted by leftism

Your entitled to your opinion J&#39;Pol...

Hmmmmmmm.

Originally posted by j2k4
It is beyond me also, but I can speak with some knowledge of it.

Someday, I hope to be able to speak of it with the authority of, say, leftism.

&nbsp;

j2... you are without doubt the most insincere person I&#39;ve ever had the misfortune to come across. Only you could write that post and then talk about extending olive branches.

I have attacked your position on topics because I disagree strongly with your views and sense an agenda.

Have I ever followed you round a thread throwing childish insults at you? Or initiated a petty argument without provocation just to amuse myself? No I have not.

Do you understand why I haven&#39;t done that and why you have? What is it about you, a middle aged man with kids, that makes you do that? Honestly, I&#39;d love to know...

Originally posted by sara
I was wrong in my assessment of you Lefty, I thought you a worthy contributor but have discovered that you are the type of person that resorts to personal insults when losing an argument

What argument Sara? He posted a few provocative childish comments. They weren&#39;t a response to any of my posts nor part of any discussion, argument or debate. I think you should read this thread before judging me, because you obviously haven&#39;t.

Originally posted by ilw
I have to disagree, obviously posting someones photo for the purpose of ridicule is out of line, but i saw those posts j2 made before leftism responded and it was perfectly obvious to me at the time (given the last few threads they&#39;ve &#39;discussed&#39; things in) that they were nothing but incitement. Imo the first move in this thread was by j2 and some form of escalation was almost inevitable.

Is ilw really the only person who has any kind of sensible perspective on this whole thing? Thats really disappointing. Ilw is absolutely right, I should not have posted j2&#39;s photo but it was not me who set the ball rolling.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
After repeated trolling I chose to ignore her[/quote]

Ahh yes my personal favourite. Mr "your a girl and I&#39;m not listening to you" Busyman.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman
I think you are wrong about ole Lefty though. What&#39;s funny is she thinks she is harming someone when in fact it makes her look like an ass.[/quote]

Replace "Lefty" with "Busyman" and that could be the only sensible thing I&#39;ve ever seen you say

For the record Busyman has been following me about doing his "your a girl and I&#39;m not listening to you" routine for almost 5 weeks now. This is because he thinks homosexuality is a choice and I think its genetic. It has something to do with his girlfriend but I cant mention that bit otherwise he runs to the mods and complains.

This why I like Busyman the most. Theres something strangely compelling about him... he reminds me of someone who is determined to show they don&#39;t care, but all their frantic efforts to prove it have the opposite effect and they never quite understand why.

Anyway, I digress.. I think everyone on this mighty bandwagon who has decided I&#39;m the worst incarnation of evil post Hitler and pre anti-Christ need to reread this thread and suspend their judgement. Those of you who are sincere I mean...

ilw, I&#39;m sure it wasn&#39;t your intent to do me a favour but I feel obliged to thank you anyway. Your post was a much needed oasis of sanity.

Well I think I&#39;m ready to step back through the looking glass for this evening. But before I do I will leave you all with one thought.

The posting of the photograph would not have been an insult had it not been for the contrast it made with j2k4&#39;s childish provocations. The insults against j2k4 were his own words. Without them, the photo would have meant nothing.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by leftism+2 April 2004 - 03:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism &#064; 2 April 2004 - 03:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
Maybe we should make fun of someones heart condition, or anothers limp, or the pimple on that picture they posted.

j2k4 chased me around this thread provoking me in a childish manner. I posted his photo to show that this kindergarten crap was coming from a middle aged man. A "name and shame tactic" if you will.

You&#39;re comparing that to making fun of people with health problems? This is why I don&#39;t believe you&#39;re sincere hobbes.

There have been occasions when I&#39;ve heeded your advice because I thought you were talking sense from a non-biased position. This is not one of them and I&#39;m sorry to say that I&#39;ve lost a lot of respect for you.
[/b][/quote]


My point of view is honest, I cannot make you believe that, obviously. I can only point to all my other threads and wonder why I would jump ship here. I cannot hold my tongue for fear of someone losing "respect" for me. I actually waited a day or so before posting my first response, but it kept nagging me, so it wasn&#39;t an off the cuff reaction to the picture.

I think you should understand that what you did was breech a tacit trust this forum has to maintain a separation between the person and the poster. Particularly when the you are in conflict with that person and the playing field is steeply slanted.

ILW clearly spoke against the use of the picture. He supported the only point I wanted to make.

Abrupt transition.. (Quasi ramble- but a good read**)

When I came here I fought with J2, Jpol, Sara, and obviously Billy Dean. Guess what we all get along now. But God nows we surely don&#39;t agree on many things, but once we got to see the human side of the others, the nature of the dicussions became more pleasant. This was particularly the case with Protak, we had some fierce name calling battles over religion. One day, in the lounge, we were responding to another poster and the next thing you know we were talking about jobs and basic life struggles. We will never agree on certain subjects, but it was certainly nice to say, "don&#39;t agree with the chap on certain things, but big picture he is ok". The lounge has some good topics, it is not just "STFU" and threads called "I got take a shit". I don&#39;t engage in the silly threads much at all, and I hold this GEP stuff at bay with a 10 foot pole.

Another case is Echidna, who has a viewpoint similar to yours. He is a largely unknown Australian poster who often was on the other side of my arguments. Over time he warmed up to the forum and vice versa, but I think a catalyst was my "Party- Lots of Beer" where I created a scenario of active friends and foes in the World News and trapped them on an elevator. I them attempted to create how the scenario would play out. At any rate, Echidna, who was an unknown foe, contributed in a light-hearted manner, in keeping with the nature of the thread. It really made the thread success.

i reckon we&#39;d be far more congenial and polite in person as opposed to our textural selves

Note: that thread is corrupted, about a page is missing, if it makes little cohesive sense.


The capper is J2 and Billy Dean. Those 2 were a sight to see. Nowadays the 2 are on respectable terms and J2 is a member of the notorious Rikk and Cowsy&#39;s.

By getting to know people, I mean relating things about yourself that allow people to form a picture of you that is not black and white type on a page, it makes the process to be more enjoyable. People here know me from my stories, but only 3 people know my name, nobody knows what job I have or my educational level. There are no pictures of me on the internet and no physical description of me in any thread*. People know me by what I have said both in the lounge and World News and can judge me by that. I with-hold the other stuff, not out of privacy, but to avoid being stereotyped by material and corporeal trappings.

I am not saying that we should all be buddy-buddy, I am not here to make internet buddies, I am here to let off steam after a tough day at work and do so in the friendliest atmosphere possible. I enjoy seeing the other side of the coin, otherwise, how will I grow. Conflict is necessary, but once we all understand that on the other side of the posts there are people sitting at their computers who are decent spuds, but hold differing opinions, then the discussions are more fruitful and fun.

On the other hand, agenda driven, logic blind madmen appear from time to time spouting their vitriol and with no intention of being reasonable or thoughtful about anything. They refuse to post outside of a few topics and everything they do really is to drive threads to their issues. Those people can fuck off, quite frankly.

You are being pecked at by J2 and others because some don&#39;t know where you are going to settle out.


*-my weight
**-sorry about the length, I got a little hyper drinking my ice cold skimmed milk.