You Still Must Know This Man

[chalice]

Originally posted by Peace@7 April 2004 - 10:06

sara5564 Posted: 1 April 2004 - 21:56


Why were the teachings of such a great man interpreted to result in the oppression of women?

Why are the teachings of such a great man interpreted by extremists to mean death to those who do not follow him?

Why have the teachings of such a great man been interpreted to mean that suicide bombers believe that they are going to heaven to consort with a multitude of virgins?

Why have the teachings of such a great man led to so much baying for blood?

Why have the teachings of such a gerat man been adulterated by those seeking personal power, glory and martydom?

His teachings it seems have been appropriated by the bad guys to justify any act of atrocity....I feel saddened for those who follow the teachings of this great man with dignity and faith.. whilst their extremist bretheren grow in numbers and we all live in fear...that great man must be turning in his grave.

First of all I am not a Muslim ? the truth should be appreciated as I think.
You have ALL THE RIGHT to ask about this (because I asked the same thing in the beginning ), but can I ask one thing?and I will answer it by my self after your permission.

May I ask who told you what you have explained about?
Answer: TV, Movies, Newspapers. we i mentioned that they are washing our brains .. i mean it, see this https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php...ic=106960&st=0

The scientific way that was approved by all standard to study any phenomena irrespectively is it good or bad is to go to its home and start doing the observations and talking notices abstractly ...without giving any personal opinion about it, then to give a judgment (mind judgment ? not the TV?s Judgment) about it.

I will give you complete answers about what you have asked about, I red about it from the book that he believed in which they called Koran, and from the history books around which I hope I will be able to find. As I said it doesn?t matter what religion he is or you are? but it?s the TRUTH.

and forgive me if i made a mistake
thanks all

The TRUTH, as you like to call it, is a matter for exploration.

Merely dismissing the western world as brainwashed takes us no closer to any understanding of the truth.

Most of Sara's questions were, as statements of fact, rhetorical.

Whether or not God exists is a matter of faith not fact.

Whether or not women should be subjugated and human beings should be mutilated in the name of religion is a matter of civilization.

There can be no doubt as to the media's influence on society but it's infinitely more difficult to slip the bonds religious brainwashing imposes upon a person.

Convincing a person that if he straps explosives to himself and takes out a bus queue, he will gain glory in heaven takes more than tv propaganda.

[Peace]

Here is some thing that you might find intresting:

the Koran that they have is written there since 1400 without any diff. untill now.and the same for what Muhammad said letterly in In a complete chain of people who have been certified and authenticated completely who had Transferred from muhammad up to now (more than 1400) and every tiny detail about him… its what they call in Islam "Haddith" ..or something like that. this some thing that i just found (i will try to find more details):

Allah says:

‘O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, That you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable among you in the sight of Allah is that (believer) who has piety and righteousness.’

(Surat-al-Hujuraat (49), ayah 13)

Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) says in his famous sermon during the farewell pilgrimage:

‘Allah has relieved you from the burden of ignorance with its pride in the fathers and the ancestors. You are all from Adam, and Adam is from dust. There is no difference between an Arab and a non-Arab, nor between a black man and a red man except in piety"

He also says:

‘He who calls to tribalism is not one of us, nor is he who fought for it, nor is he who died for it.’ (Abu Dawood).

and here what isalm says about the women:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrel.../womeninislam/

By the way, the Koran has a complete chapter about the women and I found out that it’s the third or the fourth biggest chapter there.
and i met many of them...it turn out not what i was thinking about. At least they have the right to get divorce the time they want and with their share of the Inheritance, this is what the showed me in there holy book Koran


and see this its about the main concepts of every thing (including war):

http://saif_w.tripod.com/questions/violenc...ce_in_islam.htm

sorry guys ..but those days i am so busy , i will try to drop by from a time to time ...but i will try to find what reveals the truth

[Rat Faced]

Every religion has their Pharisee's J'Paul.....

That is what the fundamental Islamic's are... they interpret to suit themselves.


Think of the Traditional Beduin Arab...

They were devout Islamic observers, with a reputation of being very hospitable and friendly, a far cry from what certain quarters claim the religion of Islam is.

Certain Jewish sects do not even consider non-Jews human, and wont even give the time of day to other Jew's if they arent Ultra-Orthodox... This is not what the vast majority of Jewish people believe, they interpret to suit themselves.

Like wise those that attacked The Pope when he kissed The Koran in 1999.


Just thank whatever God you believe in, that it is the Minorities of the Religions that feel this way.

[Peace]

chalice  Posted: 7 April 2004 - 10:21 
Convincing a person that if he straps explosives to himself and takes out a bus queue, he will gain glory in heaven takes more than tv propaganda

would you please Clarify this point

[Peace]

That is what the fundamental Islamic's are... they interpret to suit themselves

they dont interpret... its written in their holy book, we have to
Differentiate between the cultural habits and the religion. I am trying to be accurate. And I mentioned that They have a complete chapter in Koran called “the Women”. And every thing you have red is mentioned latterly in the book. In their religion they cant bring something out unless it has some roots in the holy book and SONNAH. I leaved between them for more than 11 years. and there is nothing called in islam "fundamental islamic" this is a ploitical Expression . try to check a true Muslim and feel it your self

The TRUTH, as you like to call it, is a matter for exploration

By some how yes, but what I meant is “the naked truth” … not what some one wants you to think that “THIS IS THE TRUTH”.

You have to examine what you have,foe example: if some one told me that the moon is green, I can’t believe until I see that the moon is GREEN .

They are making use of the fact that the people don’t know any thing of that part of the world but what they are broadcast to them.

[chalice]

Originally posted by Peace@7 April 2004 - 16:45

chalice Posted: 7 April 2004 - 10:21
Convincing a person that if he straps explosives to himself and takes out a bus queue, he will gain glory in heaven takes more than tv propaganda

would you please Clarify this point

My point is that there are many forms of social constraint. Television is one form, legislation is another and religion is another still.

By far the most compelling of these is religion because children, in many societies cannot avoid it. They are conditioned from birth.

You can turn off your television and go out and buy a book about whatever interests you. You can draw from various sources. Given the variety of perspective, no single concept can be deemed to be the truth. You simply have to decide for yourself what sounds most plausible to you.

I don't believe that there are any solid, unshakeable truths. Its all subjective.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by Peace@7 April 2004 - 16:53

That is what the fundamental Islamic's are... they interpret to suit themselves

they dont interpret... its written in their holy book, we have to
Differentiate between the cultural habits and the religion. I am trying to be accurate. And I mentioned that They have a complete chapter in Koran called “the Women”. And every thing you have red is mentioned latterly in the book. In their religion they cant bring something out unless it has some roots in the holy book and SONNAH. I leaved between them for more than 11 years. and there is nothing called in islam "fundamental islamic" this is a ploitical Expression . try to check a true Muslim and feel it your self

I was replying to J'Pol's comment about suicide bombers, not the rights/treatment of women, which is more cultural in nature than Religious. This being the case you may wish to withdraw your comment that it is not an interpretation and is written into the Koran, as you then paint all Islamic people as terrorists, something that is plainly not the case.

The Koran says that women should be revered and protected, not treated like 2nd class citizens.

The interpretation of the words in the Koran can be seen to have many forms in regard to this. Women in Afganistan are not treated the same way as those in Turkey for example, both are Islamic countries however they are culturaly very different.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@7 April 2004 - 16:52
Every religion has their Pharisee's J'Paul.....

That is what the fundamental Islamic's are... they interpret to suit themselves.


Think of the Traditional Beduin Arab...

They were devout Islamic observers, with a reputation of being very hospitable and friendly, a far cry from what certain quarters claim the religion of Islam is.

Certain Jewish sects do not even consider non-Jews human, and wont even give the time of day to other Jew's if they arent Ultra-Orthodox... This is not what the vast majority of Jewish people believe, they interpret to suit themselves.

Like wise those that attacked The Pope when he kissed The Koran in 1999.


Just thank whatever God you believe in, that it is the Minorities of the Religions that feel this way.

I agree.

That is why I have not, as I recall spoken of any specific religion in this thread.

I speak of the people who use religion as an excuse to commit violent acts. Of the religions which teach hate instead of love and of the clerics who spout their vitriolic bile, who encourage their followers to commit these acts. The religions which promise reward to their followers for murder or who teach that they will be punished if they accept others, or give equal rights to everyone in their society.

Whichever "religion" it makes no difference to me. If they teach intolerance and hate, either in their Holy Book, or in the interpretations of their leaders and clerics, then they do not speak in the name of God. At least not the God that I believe in.

[Peace]

chalice  Posted: 7 April 2004 - 17:11 
You can turn off your television and go out and buy a book about whatever interests you. You can draw from various sources. Given the variety of perspective, no single concept can be deemed to be the truth. You simply have to decide for yourself what sounds most plausible to you

I felt from the beginning that this form has some rational and logical people. Thanks ALL for the Gentle and rational talk.