Us Gov.

[Alex H]

So why don't you guys trade with them? They have excellent cigars, nice coffee and the best rum in the world.

Is it because they refuse to be a US puppet?

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by Alex H@1 April 2004 - 00:01
Until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, America was quite happy to sit back and watch the European conflict, safe in the knowledge that the Atlantic protected them from Nazi Germany's quest for total domination (and even more happy to sell essential supplies to France and Britian).

That's not true at all. If you about American history you would know that Franklin Roosevelt desperately wanted to join the conflict in Europe but the American people didn't want a war. He gave many public speeches saying that America wasn't going to join the war, but he didn't feel that way. It wasn't until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor that we were forced into conflict.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+1 April 2004 - 11:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank @ 1 April 2004 - 11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Alex H@1 April 2004 - 00:01
Until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, America was quite happy to sit back and watch the European conflict, safe in the knowledge that the Atlantic protected them from Nazi Germany&#39;s quest for total domination (and even more happy to sell essential supplies to France and Britian).

That&#39;s not true at all. If you about American history you would know that Franklin Roosevelt desperately wanted to join the conflict in Europe but the American people didn&#39;t want a war. He gave many public speeches saying that America wasn&#39;t going to join the war, but he didn&#39;t feel that way. It wasn&#39;t until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor that we were forced into conflict. [/b][/quote]
This is quite true.

Public opinion was largely isolationist/anti-war due to memories of WWI, and also the fact of the U.S. emerging from the Great Depression.

The last thing the public wanted was to jump back into another war.

FDR&#39;s motivations have always been the subject of speculation, but for whatever reason, he saw the inevitability of U.S. involvement.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Alex H@31 March 2004 - 21:01
like Cuba, who has continued to demonstrate that communism CAN work, despite US efforts to show otherwise.

If the US did suddenly disapear up it&#39;s own arse, I think the world would (after the celebrations had died down) get on with their own problems and ignore the hole where the United States used to be.

Alex,

I believe that Cuba&#39;s particular brand of Communism was only viable due to the almost total subsidizing of it&#39;s economy by the USSR.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Cuba has been increasingly desparate in it&#39;s overtures to the US.
Why would this be if they were as successful as you say?

Should the US "disappear up it&#39;s own arse" ( quaintly put, BTW), after the celebrations had died down I suspect that many people would realize that we haven&#39;t been cramming our culture/products down your throats ( a popularly held idea around here) as much as you all have been clamoring for them.

Basically, we cannot force you to wear Nikes and recognize Michael Jordan....you did that on your own.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Alex H@1 April 2004 - 00:07
So why don&#39;t you guys trade with them? They have excellent cigars, nice coffee and the best rum in the world.

Is it because they refuse to be a US puppet?

We don&#39;t trade with them because we don&#39;t like Castro, his regime, or it&#39;s policies, Alex.

Remember, there exists between us and Cuba a long history; nothing much ever changes, except the names of ex-presidents or actors/actresses willing to fawn over Fidel.

Puppets?

Is Saudi Arabia still one of our "puppets"?

Would that they were; in the process of trying to screw us on oil prices, they&#39;re going to give you another screwing, too, and no one gets a reach-around from the Saudis.

Besides which, I&#39;ve had several Cuban cigars; they aren&#39;t that good.

Excellent rum is no great achievement, either.

"Nice" coffee can be had from a number of places.

So-

We are left with the fact of their strategic location as an impetus for extending our largesse, but we also have Gitmo, so, given Fidel&#39;s intransigence on other issues, why should we bother?

He could access our goodwill with a few genuine overtures, but does not.

C&#39;est le guerre.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+1 April 2004 - 11:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank &#064; 1 April 2004 - 11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Alex H+1 April 2004 - 00:01--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 1 April 2004 - 00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, America was quite happy to sit back and watch the European conflict, safe in the knowledge that the Atlantic protected them from Nazi Germany&#39;s quest for total domination (and even more happy to sell essential supplies to France and Britian). [/b]

That&#39;s not true at all. If you about American history you would know that Franklin Roosevelt desperately wanted to join the conflict in Europe but the American people didn&#39;t want a war. He gave many public speeches saying that America wasn&#39;t going to join the war, but he didn&#39;t feel that way. It wasn&#39;t until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor that we were forced into conflict. [/b]

Ah, another "If-you-had-been-forced-to-sit-though-American-History-in-High-School-like-I-had-to-you&#39;d-know-better" post.

The American people didn&#39;t want to go to war until it became clear that they were actually in danger? Wow, you guys were real players huh?

<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@
Public opinion was largely isolationist/anti-war due to memories of WWI, and also the fact of the U.S. emerging from the Great Depression.[/quote]

World War 1? You guys really had it hard in that one too, didn&#39;t you? Almost 20 hard months of fighting in 4 1/2 years of war. There were a few other countries than were experiencing a "slower economy". Germany springs to mind, but they were more pro-active about it.

<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4
We don&#39;t trade with them because we don&#39;t like Castro, his regime, or it&#39;s policies, Alex.

Remember, there exists between us and Cuba a long history[/quote]

I can&#39;t believe the US is still pissed off with Cuba for not letting the US invade them. If their economy was supported by te USSR, why didn&#39;t you guys lift the embargos on them when it collapsed? clocker seems to think the Cubans would be jumping for joy with the arrival of saturation American culture, as is the rest of the world apparently.

I also can&#39;t understand the American need for installing foreign governments. Your record of playing the puppetmaster is not that impressive:

Bay Of Pigs (If the army had known what TOP SECRET meant, it could have worked&#33
The Taliban (Came back to bite you)
Saddam Hussein ("We sold him the germs, then took &#39;em back")
Osama bin Laden (Really came back to bite you&#33
Haiti
Pinochet (was it 10s or 100s of thousands?)
Noriaga
Bolivia (&#39;46 if I remember)
Grenada
Panama
Iran
Pedro Estanga
Vietnam (did you learn nothing from this?)
Indonesia&#39;s invasion of East Timor
Somalia (I forget where I read that more people were shot than were fed.)
Honduras (Good &#39;ol Battalion 316)

and of course, Saudi Arabia.


Perhaps it would be safer for you guys if Cuba didn&#39;t become an American "puppet" after all.

[Busyman]

...and what was the point of your post?

Btw it is widely known that when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor they awoke a sleeping giant.

[ilw]

more like a giant who was pretending to be sleeping.

[j2k4]

Quote: AlexH:

Ah, another "If-you-had-been-forced-to-sit-though-American-History-in-High-School-like-I-had-to-you&#39;d-know-better" post.

The American people didn&#39;t want to go to war until it became clear that they were actually in danger? Wow, you guys were real players huh?


QUOTE (j2k4)
Public opinion was largely isolationist/anti-war due to memories of WWI, and also the fact of the U.S. emerging from the Great Depression.



World War 1? You guys really had it hard in that one too, didn&#39;t you? Almost 20 hard months of fighting in 4 1/2 years of war. There were a few other countries than were experiencing a "slower economy". Germany springs to mind, but they were more pro-active about it.

I guess "20 hard months of fighting" was enough for us to learn it wasn&#39;t a pleasant experience, Alex.

If it took you 4 1/2 years, I guess that makes Britain a bunch of thickos by comparison.

You apparently feel we should have begun patterning ourselves after you guys around 1914 or so, eh?

Would that we had; then we could experience being a failed empire too.

BTW-are you suggesting we should have jumped in earlier strictly as a means of jump-starting our economy?

Is that why you guys fought?


QUOTE (j2k4)
We don&#39;t trade with them because we don&#39;t like Castro, his regime, or it&#39;s policies, Alex.

Remember, there exists between us and Cuba a long history

I can&#39;t believe the US is still pissed off with Cuba for not letting the US invade them. If their economy was supported by te USSR, why didn&#39;t you guys lift the embargos on them when it collapsed? clocker seems to think the Cubans would be jumping for joy with the arrival of saturation American culture, as is the rest of the world apparently.

No.

Castro was, and continues to be the reason, Alex.

We haven&#39;t lifted the embargoes because he hasn&#39;t/won&#39;t renounce communism.

As to American culture, there is not a country on earth without the ability to resist it; tell me, Alex, why McDonald&#39;s is everywhere?

I would guess it&#39;s a question of capitalism; everybody, everywhere, wants more money, huh?

But:

I&#39;m likewise sure that, somewhere on earth, there is some haven free of "American Culture"; why not go there?

Of course, maybe "there" doesn&#39;t have hi-speed internet access; wouldn&#39;t want to lose you from the forum.

Guess you&#39;ll just have to stay put, eh?

Honestly, Alex-can&#39;t you be anti-U.S. without ranting?

ilw-

You are absolutely correct, however, we weren&#39;t pretending; we were having "nice dreams".

[BigBank_Hank]

Quote(Alex H)

Ah, another "If-you-had-been-forced-to-sit-though-American-History-in-High-School-like-I-had-to-you&#39;d-know-better" post.

You can be forced to sit through American History but you can&#39;t be forced to pay attention. History was one of my favorite subjects while in school and is still one of my favorite things to read about.