Us Gov.

[Biggles]

The First World War is an interesting case in point.

It was a war almost everyone wanted. They went off singing merry songs and 15 year olds lied about their age in hope of getting to share in the glory. "All Quiet on the Western Front" should be compulsory viewing for all (especially political leaders).

The US did stay out longer than most and actually only had troops there in numbers by May 1917 onwards and most of their fighting took place over the 1917/1918 winter. The US commanders were keen to demonstrate their ability and refused to share front lines with the Allies preferring to take on the Germans themselves - thus repeating the errors of 1915/1916. For the limited action the US forces saw they took ridiculously heavy casaulties - running full tilt into heavy machine gun fire till there was no one left to run; a party trick of the French and British for the previous three years.

Fortunately, by 1918, the Germans were on their knees and although the Front Line never really moved significantly one way or the other, by November 1918 they called and end to it. The Allies exacted heavy retribution on the Germans and gave rise to Hitler's accusation that these Germans were the November traitors; selling out their country. Paving the way for a re-match.

The moral - when people think war is a really good idea, duck.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by j2k4+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Honestly, Alex-can&#39;t you be anti-U.S. without ranting?[/b]

Ha&#33; Thats like the US State Department&#39;s classifications of world leaders:

Extremist: Hates us.
Radical: Doesn&#39;t like us.
Moderate: Trying to suck up to us.
Ally: Already sold out to us.

If my views on the US is a rant, so be it.

Originally posted by j2k4+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>BTW-are you suggesting we should have jumped in earlier strictly as a means of jump-starting our economy?[/b]

Hey, works for everyone else. Ask <Trouble^Maker>, voice of the redneck masses, who he&#39;ll be voting for and why.

Originally posted by j2k4
Castro was, and continues to be the reason, Alex.

We haven&#39;t lifted the embargoes because he hasn&#39;t/won&#39;t renounce communism.

Why should he? Why does America have such a burning need to spread wonderful democracy to the rest of the world? Sure democracy is great, but why does the US punish countries who don&#39;t want or need it? Surely the Cold war showed you that demoracy was superior, or do you guys have a crisis of faith, and hope to get rid of it by repeatedly stating your beliefs until you know what they are?

Originally posted by j2k4
As to American culture, there is not a country on earth without the ability to resist it; tell me, Alex, why McDonald&#39;s is everywhere?

Is that something to be proud of? You export a fast food chain which is proven to be unhealthy and has shown contempt for the terrible environmental conditions it&#39;s business creates, and pays its employees a pittance.

How is that a great thing? Most people will cave in to someone with more money, more influence and bigger guns than themselves, so your argument about "resisting" American culture is a bit weak.

Well, actually there is Castro. But he&#39;s a looser that everyone hates anyway.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
what was the point of your post?[/quote]

My point was that buying and corrupting your way into other govenments, like the ones I mentioned is not responsible behavior. You have no idea of the international ramifications of the American quest for democratic dominance, and by grafting, bullying and threatening everyone who doesn&#39;t agree with you, or has something you want (I didn&#39;t metion Iraq ) you&#39;ll be doing yourselves no favours.

Shock&#33; Horror&#33; 9/11&#33; Who could have done this?&#33;? If the collective American concience could have pulled it&#39;s head out of its arse for a few seconds, you guys would have realized that lots of people hate you, because you&#39;ve f*cked them, their families and their countries over with "democracy" and "aid".


<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4
You apparently feel we should have begun patterning ourselves after you guys around 1914 or so, eh?

Would that we had; then we could experience being a failed empire too.[/quote]

Keep up the way you&#39;re going and you&#39;ll find out soon enough.

[clocker]

Interesting words, Mrs. Badcrumble.

BTW Alex,
Personally I could give a rat&#39;s ass about Cuba.
As j2 noted, just about everything they have to offer can be had elsewhere.

Out of curiousity, where did the concept come from that the US is under some sort of obligation to be nice to countries we don&#39;t like/approve of?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H+5 April 2004 - 23:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 5 April 2004 - 23:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by j2k4+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Honestly, Alex-can&#39;t you be anti-U.S. without ranting?[/b]

Ha&#33; Thats like the US State Department&#39;s classifications of world leaders:

Extremist: Hates us.
Radical: Doesn&#39;t like us.
Moderate: Trying to suck up to us.
Ally: Already sold out to us.

If my views on the US is a rant, so be it.

Originally posted by j2k4
BTW-are you suggesting we should have jumped in earlier strictly as a means of jump-starting our economy?

Hey, works for everyone else. Ask <Trouble^Maker>, voice of the redneck masses, who he&#39;ll be voting for and why.

Originally posted by j2k4
Castro was, and continues to be the reason, Alex.

We haven&#39;t lifted the embargoes because he hasn&#39;t/won&#39;t renounce communism.

Why should he? Why does America have such a burning need to spread wonderful democracy to the rest of the world? Sure democracy is great, but why does the US punish countries who don&#39;t want or need it? Surely the Cold war showed you that demoracy was superior, or do you guys have a crisis of faith, and hope to get rid of it by repeatedly stating your beliefs until you know what they are?

Originally posted by j2k4
As to American culture, there is not a country on earth without the ability to resist it; tell me, Alex, why McDonald&#39;s is everywhere?

Is that something to be proud of? You export a fast food chain which is proven to be unhealthy and has shown contempt for the terrible environmental conditions it&#39;s business creates, and pays its employees a pittance.

How is that a great thing? Most people will cave in to someone with more money, more influence and bigger guns than themselves, so your argument about "resisting" American culture is a bit weak.

Well, actually there is Castro. But he&#39;s a looser that everyone hates anyway.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
what was the point of your post?

My point was that buying and corrupting your way into other govenments, like the ones I mentioned is not responsible behavior. You have no idea of the international ramifications of the American quest for democratic dominance, and by grafting, bullying and threatening everyone who doesn&#39;t agree with you, or has something you want (I didn&#39;t metion Iraq ) you&#39;ll be doing yourselves no favours.

Shock&#33; Horror&#33; 9/11&#33; Who could have done this?&#33;? If the collective American concience could have pulled it&#39;s head out of its arse for a few seconds, you guys would have realized that lots of people hate you, because you&#39;ve f*cked them, their families and their countries over with "democracy" and "aid".


<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4
You apparently feel we should have begun patterning ourselves after you guys around 1914 or so, eh?

Would that we had; then we could experience being a failed empire too.[/quote]

Keep up the way you&#39;re going and you&#39;ll find out soon enough. [/b][/quote]
Alex H is on a roll huh?

Attacking "all things American"; even Mickey D&#39;s.

Besides your anti-American rant, I&#39;m with you on one thing...I really wish we would stop so much "aid" and trying to spread democracy.

The UK has had terrorism too. Furthermore just because alot of people hate us, as you say, doesn&#39;t mean the collective conscience of America shouldn&#39;t be shocked ya dumbfunk&#33;&#33;&#33; What were Americans supposed to say as the second tower crumbled?...."Well calm down everyone, we did support Israel". You are making light of 9/11 and that&#39;s a real bitch ass thing to do.

The rest of your post..well..you can go fuck yourself.

Get this straight also...we help who we want to help....just like the UK.
We are not obligated to help anyone.

[Peace]

First of all thanks people for the interesting responses,
I just would like o confirm that I don’t have any thing against the people of the US, for the matter fact I respect the majority of these people how have a great sensation of care and love (I am saying that coz I mean it) and I have many friends from that state who are very kind.
The problem is with the government which is taking the proverb” dived and conquer” they way to control all what I have mentioned in the beginning. Its very easy… keep the people of a country poor and without any study, so they will be completely busy how to bring food on the table and no one will give a damn about what is really happening.

They now how to play so they are making sure to keep the people away from the truth… the truth that they are claiming that they are very keen to bring it out for the people, I will tell you one thing guys, just try to get the real number about the number of the US soldiers who were killed. A friend of me who is working there, that the number of the soldiers who were killed is much bigger than was published (as you now this type of info. remains classified as one of the war’s secret) so how they will give it to the press freely to turn the people upside-down on there government.

I know that there is many...many people that if they know the truth, they will immediately adopt it, that why they are fooling you using your TV that you have paid for .

You can imagine people what is being made in the dark, no body give a damn for people souls regardless if they are Americans or from Afghanistan. They most important thing that they care about how much profit they will achieve, that why they killed the good guy Kennedy.

All the peace people and be careful. Hiding the truth is hard… but telling the truth is the HARDEST … it’s really so funny so painful

[Peace]

and see this

https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php...ic=107584&st=0




Edited: Duplicate posting not necessary. Refer to post by Peace on thread listed above.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by clocker+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Out of curiousity, where did the concept come from that the US is under some sort of obligation to be nice to countries we don&#39;t like/approve of?[/b]

The fact that you personally share this planet with more than 6 billion other people puts a resposibility on you to ensure that nothing bad happens to them. You don&#39;t have to go out and fight injustice in all its forms or even be increadibly active about it. Its called being a good citizen. You try to be nice to your family and friends, your local community and of course to your fellow countrymen and women.

There is another level to it, which is becoming increasingly clear in the Information Age, and that is the global community.

If you saw a kid in the street (or even your own child calling another kid a "dirty Muslim", you&#39;d say something along the lines of: "No, you&#39;re not better than that kid, you two are both equals, he just has different beliefs to yours". (If you&#39;ve heard this this concept before in your constitution, you&#39;ll know what I&#39;m on about).

So why don&#39;t you "approve" of communist Cuba? Just because you like democracy, why do you have to hate communism? If you "don&#39;t like" them, why do you have to try to destroy them. Personally, if I don&#39;t like someone I ignore them, but the US government has made the decision to "hate" on behalf of your entire country, where there maybe some people who don&#39;t mind the Cubans or their cigars. What benefits does America get from embargos on Cuba?

Originally posted by Busyman+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What were Americans supposed to say as the second tower crumbled?...."Well calm down everyone, we did support Israel". You are making light of 9/11 and that&#39;s a real bitch ass thing to do.[/b]

I watched it with a 5 minte delay as it was happening. First, I thought, "F*CK&#33; That&#39;s terrible...so many people...", then, "...but it doesn&#39;t surprise me".

The US has bombed or invaded so many smaller countries and ethnic groups that it was hardly surprising one of them would be pissed off enough to fight back. I wonder how many people in the Middle East watched the events of 9/11 thinking "Hey America, welcome to the rest of the world"?

I wasn&#39;t "making light" of that day, I was simply pointing out how your society is quite happy to run with the status quo and not think about anything outside your simple little world until it comes crashing down around you.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
Get this straight also...we help who we want to help....just like the UK.
We are not obligated to help anyone. [/quote]
I&#39;ve got f*cking issues with the way the UK has behaved recently (and in the not-so-recent past) so saying "We only dun wot they dun" is hardly an excuse for your country&#39;s appaling actions. So there are two big and powerful countries that treat the rest of the world like shit. Do you want congratulations, dancing girls and a cake?

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman
We are not obligated to help anyone.[/quote] As I said, I believe we are all accountable for our actions, and our inactions.

But if you do really believe that, please do not expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for you when some terrorists take ou their anger on you again. And don&#39;t ask for volunteers for anymore "Coalitions of the Willing". We&#39;re not obliged to, so why should we bother?

[alpha]

^ Well said

[Peace]

Alex H
where you ahve been from the beigging
there is some rational people around...just as i thought

Alex H Posted: 8 April 2004 - 09:37&nbsp;

You try to be nice to your family and friends, your local community and of course to your fellow countrymen and women.

you are right ...but dont you think that is selfish . yah i know its a valid piont

Alex H Posted: 8 April 2004 - 09:37&nbsp;
The fact that you personally share this planet with more than 6 billion other people puts a resposibility on you to ensure that nothing bad happens to them. You don&#39;t have to go out and fight injustice in all its forms or even be increadibly active about it. Its called being a good citizen. You try to be nice to your family and friends, your local community and of course to your fellow countrymen and women.

There is another level to it, which is becoming increasingly clear in the Information Age, and that is the global community.

If you saw a kid in the street (or even your own child calling another kid a "dirty Muslim", you&#39;d say something along the lines of: "No, you&#39;re not better than that kid, you two are both equals, he just has different beliefs to yours". (If you&#39;ve heard this this concept before in your constitution, you&#39;ll know what I&#39;m on about).

So why don&#39;t you "approve" of communist Cuba? Just because you like democracy, why do you have to hate communism? If you "don&#39;t like" them, why do you have to try to destroy them. Personally, if I don&#39;t like someone I ignore them, but the US government has made the decision to "hate" on behalf of your entire country, where there maybe some people who don&#39;t mind the Cubans or their cigars. What benefits does America get from embargos on Cuba?



The US has bombed or invaded so many smaller countries and ethnic groups that it was hardly surprising one of them would be pissed off enough to fight back. I wonder how many people in the Middle East watched the events of 9/11 thinking "Hey America, welcome to the rest of the world"?

this is GREAT NO COMMENT

Keep on the good and rational work man

[j2k4]

Quote:AlexH:

QUOTE (clocker)
Out of curiousity, where did the concept come from that the US is under some sort of obligation to be nice to countries we don&#39;t like/approve of?


The fact that you personally share this planet with more than 6 billion other people puts a resposibility on you to ensure that nothing bad happens to them.

This would seem to indicate we should be everywhere at once with a military presence.

Of course, this sentiment doesn&#39;t take into account that we are constantly berated for thinking we are the world&#39;s "coppers", and I&#39;m sure it wouldn&#39;t save us from being accused of "just being in it for the oil", if there is any about.

Make up your mind, Alex:

Do we get to act outside our borders or not?

And don&#39;t even mention the U.N.; we&#39;ve had a bellyful of them and their inaction and outright stupidity-they are being exposed for what they are right now:

A collection of hapless countries overseen by a corrupt few opportunists (France, Russia, China, and a few others) which saw fit to benefit from back-door deals with Saddam Hussein to the extreme detriment of the Iraqi people.

No doubt they did what they did out of a humane concern for all the people of the Mideast.


You don&#39;t have to go out and fight injustice in all its forms or even be increadibly active about it. Its called being a good citizen. You try to be nice to your family and friends, your local community and of course to your fellow countrymen and women.

There is another level to it, which is becoming increasingly clear in the Information Age, and that is the global community.

If you saw a kid in the street (or even your own child calling another kid a "dirty Muslim", you&#39;d say something along the lines of: "No, you&#39;re not better than that kid, you two are both equals, he just has different beliefs to yours". (If you&#39;ve heard this this concept before in your constitution, you&#39;ll know what I&#39;m on about).

So why don&#39;t you "approve" of communist Cuba? Just because you like democracy, why do you have to hate communism? If you "don&#39;t like" them, why do you have to try to destroy them. Personally, if I don&#39;t like someone I ignore them,

Actually, this is an apt description of our policy towards Cuba.

but the US government has made the decision to "hate" on behalf of your entire country,

Don&#39;t decide who we "hate", Alex.

I live in the U.S., and you don&#39;t.

We do not hate Cuba or it&#39;s citizens (much as you claim not to hate Americans), we do have a problem with Fidel, as has been noted already.

If you don&#39;t see the difference, that is your problem, not ours.

where there maybe some people who don&#39;t mind the Cubans or their cigars. What benefits does America get from embargos on Cuba?

Y&#39;know, I&#39;d bet that the Cuban-cigar industry is government-owned. That would seem to indicate the revenue from sale of same would go into Fidel&#39;s pocket, and be of little consequence to the average Cuban.

I could be wrong on this, though.

Nah. I&#39;m right.

QUOTE (Busyman)
What were Americans supposed to say as the second tower crumbled?...."Well calm down everyone, we did support Israel". You are making light of 9/11 and that&#39;s a real bitch ass thing to do.



I watched it with a 5 minte delay as it was happening. First, I thought, "F*CK&#33; That&#39;s terrible...so many people...", then, "...but it doesn&#39;t surprise me"..because the U.S. supports Israel.

The US has bombed or invaded so many smaller countries and ethnic groups that it was hardly surprising one of them would be pissed off enough to fight back. I wonder how many people in the Middle East watched the events of 9/11 thinking "Hey America, welcome to the rest of the world"?

I wasn&#39;t "making light" of that day, I was simply pointing out how your society is quite happy to run with the status quo and not think about anything outside your simple little world until it comes crashing down around you.


QUOTE (Busyman)
Get this straight also...we help who we want to help....just like the UK.
We are not obligated to help anyone.


I&#39;ve got f*cking issues with the way the UK has behaved recently (and in the not-so-recent past) so saying "We only dun wot they dun" is hardly an excuse for your country&#39;s appaling actions. So there are two big and powerful countries that treat the rest of the world like shit. Do you want congratulations, dancing girls and a cake?


QUOTE (Busyman)
We are not obligated to help anyone.

As I said, I believe we are all accountable for our actions, and our inactions.

But if you do really believe that, please do not expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for you when some terrorists take ou their anger on you again. And don&#39;t ask for volunteers for anymore "Coalitions of the Willing". We&#39;re not obliged to, so why should we bother?

Just so, Alex.

Pull up a nice comfy chair and watch while we trot around the globe, caring/aggressing/warring, or whatever you want to call it; just so long as you are free to complain, eh?

Funny:

If you lived in most of the places you profess to "care" about (Cuba comes to mind) you wouldn&#39;t be free to say much of anything; and if you don&#39;t believe me, just ask one of our many Cuban board-members.