Peace Offer From Bin Laden

[fred devliegher]

Originally posted by yonki+17 April 2004 - 00:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yonki @ 17 April 2004 - 00:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 19:32
There were two ways of dealing with the situation : hunt down the bombers and end the campaign with force, or change the situation of the working class by improving their condition and giving them the rights they deserved.

You are right harry potter. But you can hunt down the terrorists without starting a war. HELP those countries and go after the terrorists. Its so eeeasy [/b][/quote]
I&#39;ll skip the Potter remark -

What is your soluton, then ? Keep fighting ? Let American soldiers die weekly until there are non left who are willing to be slaughtered ?

Please, enlighten me...

What is a "Beast of Burdon", pray tell.

I second that. And it&#39;s spelled "burden" IIRC.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}+17 April 2004 - 01:51--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ({SHELL%SHOCKED} &#064; 17 April 2004 - 01:51)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 00:28

Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}@16 April 2004 - 18:54
<!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher

@16 April 2004 - 18:45
^^ symptoms. Not cause.

Times of crisis are a feeding ground for religious extremism. Just look at the US right now.

EDIT : I&#39;m not blind, there&#39;s no reason to shout.

Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions.

Half of the problem is that you are forcing your morals on another culture.

Morals are not universal...what is moral one place isnt in another.



and please....stop shouting.

Its annoying and bad manners..

I&#39;m basing the morality on the UN Charter and Geneva conventions , but I guess sub-Humans don&#39;t have the thought capacity just like any other Beast Of Burdon. [/b][/quote]
Strange, because the USA appears to have pulled out of both for all practical purposes.

For example the USA appears to be the only National State that has never given national legislative action for the mimimum age of marriage: thats left to individual States..contrary to UN Human Rights Conventions. (Yes I know that the individual States have, and so for all Practical purposes the Convention is fulfilled, however allow me to play "Lawyer" just this once )

Camp X-Ray was a clear break with the Geneva Convention.

Does this make Americans "Sub Human"? By your arguements it does...I have to disagree with you on that though...

Pallestinians havent got a nation and are not signatories of the UN or the Geneva Convention; yet Israel are.... both sides break the UN Human Rights Conventions and the Geneva Convention frequently, are they both "Sub Human"? Again i have to disagree with you.

What is moral is dependant upon "Ethics" and "Honour".. 2 words that; although having a clear meaning, depend upon the culture in which your living for that definition. An Islamic terrorist, in his eyes, is acting with honour... as is an Israeli Pilot, .... as is Castro, as is...... the list goes on.


.....as i said, stop inflicting your morals on others, as you will quickly find out that in many cases your "Morals" are the exception in some things not the norm... by your own standards that would make YOU the "immoral subhuman".



I suggest you finish Kindergarten before you take part in these debates, as they are obviously way over your head....

[jetje]

this peace offer looks a lot like a demand in a hostage situation
so for that reason it&#39;s good they denied it.

Still i think that terrorism has little to do with countries and dictators running them.
The only way to take away the foodingrounds (why someone will become a terrorist, i mean) of terrorism is to divide the wealth in the world in a honest way. If all normal people could live in peace and have a good life there would be little reason to blew themselves up. Respect is a keyword in this.

I still believe if a palestinian child could get raised in a normal house and have normal education is able to play with his gameboy and play soccer without having a chance to be shot or blown up he would be pretty much happy.. wich child wouldn&#39;t? So just make sure the palestinians (and all other people in the world in similar situations) get houses decent jobs to take care of their families, and have the right to believe in whatever someone wants to believe in and to travel wherever one may go... there would be little reason to carry a bag full explosives to some place just to blow something up...

Too bad that there are almost none politicians and industrials left that knows the meaning of respect (It&#39;s all about power and money for them...)
yes i know pretty idealistic but i really believe this is how it should work...

John Lennon said once:
They may say that i&#39;m a dreamer, but i&#39;m not the only one..... (Imagine)

[fred devliegher]

Well said.

And my point exactly - take away the cause and the effect dissappears with it.

[Rat Faced]

Baghdad Burning

[Busyman]

Originally posted by From Baghdad Burning+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (From Baghdad Burning)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Still, when I hear talk about "anti-Americanism" it angers me. Why does American identify itself with its military and government? Why is does being anti-Bush and anti-occupation have to mean that a person is anti-American? [/b]

Excellent point&#33;&#33;&#33; It seems a number of forum members don&#39;t think that way. They insult the "American people".

<!--QuoteBegin-From Baghdad Burning
I hate American tanks in Baghdad and American soldiers on our streets and in our homes on occasion.[/quote]

I totally agree. We should not be in a country where we are not wanted even though I think most Iraqis are glad Saddam is gone.


Does America pull troops out now? Like Afghanistan?
Will a new dictator take Saddams place? Most likely.
The Iraqi people will probably unite under someone....only with disdain for America. Or they will fight amongst themselves.

btw not everyone hates America&#39;s meddling. We should have let Saddam take over Kuwait I guess.

After that, I&#39;m sure he would have stopped there.

[Rat Faced]

You seem to have forgotten that the original Gulf War is the reason Saddam hated the USA so much.

He discussed it with the US Government before he went into Kuwait and they told him "We are not interested in a purely Arabian War"

...he took this as a green light, and felt that the USA response was a betrayal on what they told him beforhand..

The US may have prevented the Gulf War, with no bloodshed, much the same way Chamberlain may have been able to prevent WWII....

...cant unspill milk however


Even so, at the time of Kuwait BL was a US ally fighting against Iraq....so whats your point here in connection with the thread?

.... Oh, yeh...he was this time too....

My Bad

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 18:56
You seem to have forgotten that the original Gulf War is the reason Saddam hated the USA so much.

He discussed it with the US Government before he went into Kuwait and they told him "We are not interested in a purely Arabian War"

...he took this as a green light, and felt that the USA response was a betrayal on what they told him beforhand..

The US may have prevented the Gulf War, with no bloodshed, much the same way Chamberlain may have been able to prevent WWII....

...cant unspill milk however


Even so, at the time of Kuwait BL was a US ally fighting against Iraq....so whats your point here in connection with the thread?

.... Oh, yeh...he was this time too....

My Bad

Could you give us a link to this "discussion".

So as long as people run it by the US, and we show no interest, this is equivalent to approving a war?

I thought the UN approved the first Gulf War. Was the US supposed to block it with a veto?

This makes it seeems that the US gives the nod worldwide on what people can and can&#39;t do. We should be given a title for this honor, or something.


What is an ally?

An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.
A foe does the opposite.
A friend is someone you rely on.

Whether Saddam or Bin Laden were considered allies at some time, for some reason, never makes them "friends". They were just bitches doing what we wanted. The relationship was a simple and paper thin as that.

Once they stop doing what they are told, they are the Axis of Evil, that is politics.

[fred devliegher]

What is an ally?

An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.
A foe does the opposite.
A friend is someone you rely on.

Dictionary.com on ally

&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; To place in a friendly association, as by treaty.
&nbsp; 2. To unite or connect in a personal relationship, as in friendship or marriage.

An ally is someone who shares your ideas, whom you cooperate with to achieve a common goal. You described a puppy.

And "ally" implies that there is at least a modicum of trust and mutual agreement.

[Rat Faced]

Hobbes, re-read the post.

I said "He took this to mean..."

I did not say that anyone else agreed with His thoughts...

What is an ally?

An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.

I really hope you dont mean that, you are far too intelligent to make such assumptions...

An Ally, in this case, is an organisation that was fighting alongside your own troops to defeat a common enemy.

This does not necessarily make the Ally a friend... or Russia would have been the most welcome country on the planet after WWII...