Your Ad Here Your Ad Here
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: The Lies Of Gw Bush

  1. #1
    Rat Faced's Avatar Broken
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Newcasil
    Age
    52
    Posts
    9,076
    Lets start with....


    The lead up to Iraq?


    Lie No. 1: “My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision.”

    Fact:

    The decision for war with Iraq was made long ago, the intervening time having been spent in an attempt to create the political climate in which US troops could be deployed for an attack. According to press reports, at one of the first National Security Council meetings of his presidency, months before the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, Bush expressed his determination to overthrow Saddam Hussein and his willingness to commit US ground troops to an attack on Iraq for that purpose. All that was required was the appropriate pretext—supplied by September 11, 2001.



    Lie No. 2: “For more than a decade, the United States and other nations have pursued patient and honorable efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime without war.”

    Fact:

    The US-led United Nations regime of sanctions against Iraq, combined with “no-fly” zones and provocative weapons inspections, is one of brutal oppression. The deliberate withholding of food, medical supplies and other vital necessities is responsible for the estimated death of more than a million Iraqis, half of them children. Two UN officials who headed the oil-for-food program resigned in protest over the conditions created in Iraq by the sanctions. The CIA used the inspectors as a front, infiltrating agents into UNSCOM, the original inspections program. When these were discovered and asked to leave, the US pressured all UN inspectors to leave at the same time.



    Lie No. 3: “The Iraqi regime has used diplomacy as a ploy to gain time and advantage. It has uniformly defied Security Council resolutions demanding full disarmament...”

    Fact:

    Iraq has never “defied” a Security Council resolution since the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. It has generally cooperated with the dictates of the UN body, although frequently under protest or with reservations, because many of the resolutions involve gross violations of Iraqi sovereignty. From 1991 to 1998, UN inspectors supervised the destruction of the vast bulk of the chemical and biological weapons, as well as delivery systems, which Iraq accumulated (with the assistance of the US) during the Iran-Iraq war, and they also destroyed all of Iraq’s facilities for making new weapons.



    Lie No. 4: “Peaceful efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime have failed again and again because we are not dealing with peaceful men.”

    Fact:

    Under UN supervision, Iraq destroyed 817 out of 819 proscribed medium-range missiles, 14 launchers, 9 trailers and 56 fixed missile-launch sites. It also destroyed 73 out of 75 chemical or biological warheads and 163 warheads for conventional explosives. UN inspectors also supervised destruction of 88,000 filled and unfilled chemical munitions, more than 600 tons of weaponized and bulk chemical weapons agents, 4,000 tons of precursor chemicals and 980 pieces of equipment considered key to production of such weapons..



    Lie No. 5: “The Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”

    Fact:

    CIA officials were concerned “about whether administration officials have exaggerated intelligence in a desire to convince the American public and foreign governments that Iraq is violating United Nations prohibitions against chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons and long-range missile systems.” A senior intelligence analyst said the inspectors could not locate weapons caches “because there may not be much of a stockpile.”

    Former British Foreign Minister Robin Cook, who resigned from the Blair government in protest over the decision to go to war without UN authorization, declared, “Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term.”

    Even if Iraq was concealing some remnants of its 1980s arsenal, these would hardly deserve Bush’s lurid description, since they were primitive and relatively ineffective. “Some of the most lethal weapons ever devised” are those unleashed by the United States on Iraq: cruise missiles, smart bombs, fuel-air explosives, the 10,000-pound “daisy-cutter” bomb, the 20,000-pound MOAB. In addition, the US had explicitly refused to rule out the use of nuclear weapons.



    Lie No. 6: “[Iraq] has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of Al Qaeda.”

    Fact:

    No one, not even US government, seriously believed there was a significant connection between the Islamic fundamentalists and the secular nationalist Ba’athist regime in Iraq, which have been mortal enemies for decades. The continued assertion of an Al Qaeda-Iraq alliance was a desperate attempt to link Saddam Hussein to the September 11 attacks.

    It also served to cover up the responsibility of American foreign policy for sponsoring Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. The forces that now comprise Al Qaeda were largely recruited, trained, armed and set in motion by the CIA itself, as part of a long-term policy of using Islamic fundamentalists as a weapon against left-wing movements in the Muslim countries. This policy was pursued from the 1950s and was escalated prior to and during the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, which ended in 1989. Osama bin Laden himself was part of the CIA-backed mujaheddin forces in Afghanistan before he turned against Washington in the 1990s.



    Lie No. 7: “America tried to work with the United Nations to address this threat because we wanted to resolve the issue peacefully.”

    Fact:

    The Bush administration went to the United Nations because it wanted UN sanction for military action and it wanted UN member states to cough up funds for postwar operations, along the lines of its financial shakedown operation for the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Bush’s most hawkish advisors, such as Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Cheney, initially opposed going to the UN because they did not want diplomacy to slow down the drive to war. They only agreed after Secretary of State Colin Powell argued that the pace of the US military buildup in the Persian Gulf gave enough time to get the UN to rubber-stamp the war.



    Lie No. 8: “These governments [the Security Council majority] share our assessment of the danger, but not our resolve to meet it.”

    Fact:

    This is belied by virtually every statement on Iraq issued by the governments of France, Russia, China, Germany and other countries opposed to military action, which have repeatedly declared that they saw no imminent threat from Iraq. Bush brands his opponents on the Security Council as cowards, as though they were afraid to take action against Saddam Hussein. These countries were, in fact, increasingly alarmed—by the United States, not Iraq. Insofar as they summoned up resolve, to the shock of the Bush administration, it was to deny UN support for the war that Washington had already decided to wage.




    Lie No. 9: “Many nations, however, do have the resolve and fortitude to act against this threat to peace, and a broad coalition is now gathering to enforce the just demands of the world.”

    Fact:

    Only three nations contributed military forces to the war: 250,000 from the US, 40,000 from Britain, and 2,000 from Australia. The other members of the “broad coalition” are those which were bribed or browbeaten to allow the US to fly over their countries to bomb Iraq, to station troops, ships or warplanes on their territory, or provide technical assistance or other material aid to the war. None would do any fighting.

    All were acting against the expressed desire of their own population.




    Lie No. 10: “The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours.”

    Fact:

    Bush defines the UN body’s responsibility as serving as a rubber stamp for whatever action the United States government demands. In relation to the UN, however, the United States does have definite responsibilities, including refraining from waging war without Security Council authorization, except in the case of immediate self-defense.

    Under Article 42 of the UN Charter, it is for the Security Council, not the US or Britain, to decide how Security Council resolutions such as 1441 are to be enforced. The US decision to “enforce” its interpretation of 1441 regardless of the will of the Security Council is a violation of international law.




    Lie No. 11: “If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you.”

    Fact:

    The widely reported US military strategy was to conduct an aerial bombardment of Iraq so devastating that it would “shock and awe” the Iraqi people and compel the Iraqi armed forces to surrender en masse. According to one press preview, US and British forces “plan to launch the deadliest first night of air strikes on a single country in the history of air power. Hundreds of targets in every region of Iraq will be hit simultaneously.” Estimates of likely Iraqi civilian casualties from the immediate impact of bombs and missiles ranged from thousands to hundreds of thousands, and even higher when the long-term effects were included.




    Lie No. 12: “As our coalition takes their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need.”

    Fact:

    This was particularly cynical, since the immediate consequence of Bush’s 48-hour ultimatum was the withdrawal of all UN humanitarian aid workers and the shutdown of the oil-for-food program, which underwrites the feeding of 60 percent of Iraq’s population. As for medicine, the US had systematically deprived the Iraqi people of needed medicine for the 12 years prior, insisting that even the most basic medical supplies, like antibiotics and syringes, be banned as “dual-use” items that could be used in a program of biological warfare.




    Lie No. 13: “We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free.”

    Fact:

    The goal of the Bush administration is to install a US puppet regime in Baghdad.

    It is no exaggeration to say that the US government has been the leading promoter of dictatorships around the world, from Pinochet of Chile to Suharto of Indonesia to Saddam Hussein himself, who, according to one recent report, got his political start as an anti-communist hit-man working in a CIA-backed plot to assassinate Iraq’s left-nationalist President Qasem in 1959.

    A classified State Department report described by the Los Angeles Times of March 14 2003, not only concluded that a democratic Iraq was unlikely to arise from the devastation of war, it suggested that this was not even desirable from the standpoint of American interests, because “anti-American sentiment is so pervasive that elections in the short term could lead to the rise of Islamic-controlled governments hostile to the United States.”




    Lie No. 14: “Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war and every measure will be taken to win it.”

    Fact:

    This combines a lie and a brutal truth. The Bush administration had taken every possible measure to insure that war took place, viewing the resumption of UN weapons inspections with barely disguised hostility and directing its venom against those countries that have suggested a diplomatic settlement with Iraq is achievable. In prosecuting the war, the Bush administration was indeed prepared to use “every measure,” up to an including nuclear weapons, in order to win it.. he even changed US policy on pre-emptive strikes to ensure it was possible.




    Lie No. 15: “War has no certainty except the certainty of sacrifice.”

    Fact:

    There were and will be colossal sacrifices for the Iraqi people, and sacrifices in blood and economic well-being for the American people as well.

    But for Bush’s real constituency, the wealthiest layer at the top of American society, there will be no sacrifices at all.

    Major US corporations were in line to reap hundreds of millions of dollars in profits from the rebuilding of Iraqi infrastructure shattered by the US/UK assault. These include the oil construction firm Halliburton, which Vice President Cheney headed prior to joining the Bush administration, and which continues to include Cheney on its payroll.




    Lie No. 16: “[T]he only way to reduce the harm and duration of war is to apply the full force and might of our military, and we are prepared to do so.”

    Fact:

    Every aggressor claims to deplore the suffering of war and seeks to blame the victim for resisting, and thus prolonging the agony. Bush was no different. His hypocritical statements of “concern” for the Iraqi people cannot disguise the fact that, as many administration apologists freely admit, this was “a war of choice”—deliberately sought by the US government to pursue its strategic agenda in the Middle East.




    Lie No. 17: “The terrorist threat to America and the world will be diminished the moment that Saddam Hussein is disarmed.”

    Fact:

    No one, even in the American military-intelligence complex, seriously believed this. US counter-terrorism officials have repeatedly said that a US conquest and occupation of Iraq, by killing untold thousands of Arabs and Muslims and inflaming public opinion in the Arab world and beyond, will spark more terrorism, not less.




    Lie No. 18: “We are now acting because the risks of inaction would be far greater. In one year, or five years, the power of Iraq to inflict harm on all free nations would be multiplied many times over.”

    Fact:

    This was belied by the record of the past twelve years, which had seen a steady decline in Iraqi military power. Saddam Hussein had never been a threat to any “free nation,” if that term has any meaning, only to the reactionary oil sheikdoms of the Persian Gulf and to neighboring Iran, all ruled by regimes that are as repressive as his.




    Lie No. 19: “As we enforce the just demands of the world, we will also honor the deepest commitments of our country.”

    Fact:

    The demands of the world were expressed by the millions who marched in cities throughout the world on February 15 and March 15 2003 to oppose a unilateral US/UK attack on Iraq. Bush sought to have it both ways—claiming to enforce previous Security Council resolutions against Iraq (“the just demands of the world”), while flagrantly defying the will of the majority of the Security Council, the majority of the world’s governments, and the vast majority of the world’s people.




    Lie No. 20: “Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty... The United States with other countries will work to advance liberty and peace in that region.”

    Fact:

    For “the Iraqi people,” substitute “the Egyptian people,” “the people of the Arabian peninsula,” “the Pakistani people” or those of other US-backed dictatorships, not to mention the Palestinians who live under an Israeli occupation that is supported by Washington. Does the US government believe that any of them are “deserving and capable of human liberty?” When the parliament of Turkey, under the pressure of popular opposition, voted to bar the US from using Turkish territory to invade Iraq, the Bush administration appealed to the Turkish military to pressure the government into overturning this democratic decision.



    I'll post Domestic Issues etc later


    Edit:

    Tax Cuts


    One of Bush's biggest tax-cut whoppers came when he stated, during the presidential campaign, "The vast majority of my [proposed] tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum." That estimate was wildly at odds with analyses of where the money would really go. A report figured that 42.6 percent of Bush's $1.6 trillion tax package would end up in the pockets of the top 1 percent of earners. The lowest 60 percent would net 12.6 percent.

    To deal with the criticism that his plan was a boon for millionaires, Bush devised an imaginary friend--a mythical single waitress who was supporting two children on an income of $22,000, and he talked about her often. He said he wanted to remove the tax-code barriers that kept this waitress from reaching the middle class, and he insisted that if his tax cuts were passed, "she will pay no income taxes at all." But when Time asked the accounting firm of Deloitte & Touche to analyze precisely how Bush's waitress-mom would be affected by his tax package, the firm reported that she would not see any benefit because she already had no income-tax liability.


    When his second set of supersized tax cuts was assailed for being tilted toward the rich, he claimed, "Ninety-two million Americans will keep an average of $1,083 more of their own money." The Tax Policy Center of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute found that, contrary to Bush's assertion, nearly 80 percent of tax filers would receive less than $1,083, and almost half would pocket less than $100. The truly average taxpayers--those in the middle of the income range--would receive $265. Bush was using the word "average" in a flimflam fashion. To concoct the misleading $1,083 figure, the Administration took the large dollar amounts high-income taxpayers would receive and added that to the modest, small or nonexistent reductions other taxpayers would get--and then used this total to calculate an average gain. His claim was akin to saying that if a street had nine households led by unemployed individuals but one with an earner making a million dollars, the average income of the families on the block would be $100,000. The radical Wall Street Journal reported, "Overall, the gains from the taxes are weighted toward upper-income taxpayers."

    I will grant you that the last paragraph is more "Spin" than outright lie... but still, that is some spin


    Edit:

    The Environment

    One of Bush's first PR slip-ups as President came when his EPA announced that it would withdraw a new standard for arsenic in drinking water that had been developed during the Clinton years. Bush defended this move by claiming that the new standard had been irresponsibly rushed through: "At the very last minute my predecessor made a decision, and we pulled back his decision so that we can make a decision based upon sound science and what's realistic." And his EPA administrator, Christine Todd Whitman, said the standard had not been based on the "best available science." This was a harsh charge. And untrue.

    The new arsenic standard was no quickie job unattached to reasonable scientific findings. The EPA had worked for a decade on establishing the new, 10-parts-per-billion standard. Congress had directed the agency to establish a new standard, and it had authorized $2.5 million a year for studies from 1997 through 2000. A 1999 study by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) had concluded that the existing 50-ppb standard "could easily" result in a 1-in-100 cancer risk and had recommended that acceptable levels be lowered "as promptly as possible." EPA policy-makers had thought that a 3-ppb standard would have been justified by the science, yet they took cost considerations into account and went for the less stringent 10 ppb.

    Bush's arsenic move appeared to have been based upon a political calculation--even though Bush, as a candidate, had said he would not decide key policy matters on the basis of politics... possibly to win votes in New Mexico, where the costs are higher due to high levels.

    Several months after the EPA suspended the standard, a new NAS study concluded that the 10-ppb standard was indeed scientifically justified and possibly not tight enough. After that, the Administration decided that the original 10 ppb was exactly the right level for a workable rule, even though the latest in "best available science" now suggested that the 10-ppb level might not adequately safeguard water drinkers.

    The arsenic screw-up was one of the few lies for which Bush took a hit.

    On the matter of global warming, he managed to lie his way through a controversy more deftly.

    Months into his presidency, Bush declared that he was opposed to the Kyoto Protocol, the 1997 global warming accord. To defend his retreat from the treaty, he cited "the incomplete state of scientific knowledge." This was a misleading argument, for the scientific consensus was rather firm. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), an international body of thousands of scientists assembled by the UN and the World Meteorological Organization, held that global temperatures were dramatically on the rise and that this increase was, to an unspecified degree, a result of human-induced emissions.

    In early June 2001 the NAS released a report Bush had requested, and it concluded global warming was under way and "most likely due to human activities." Rather than accept the analysis it had commissioned, the Bush White House countered with duplicity. Press secretary Fleischer maintained that the report "concludes that the Earth is warming. But it is inconclusive on why--whether it's man-made causes or whether it's natural causes."

    That was not spinning. That was prevaricating. The study blamed "human activities" while noting that "natural variability" might be a contributing factor too.

    Still, the Bush White House wanted to make it seem as if Bush did take the issue seriously. So on June 11, he delivered a speech on global warming and pledged to craft an alternative to Kyoto that would "reduce" emissions. The following February he unveiled his plan. "Our immediate goal," Bush said, "is to reduce America's greenhouse-gas emissions relative to the size of our economy."

    Since the US economy is generally growing, this meant emissions could continue to rise, as long as the rate of increase was below the rate of economic growth.

    The other industrialized nations, with the Kyoto accord, were calling for reductions below 1990 levels. Bush was pushing for slower increases above 2000 levels.

    Bush's promise to lower emissions is no more than hot air.



    It did not start with Iraq.

    Bush has been lying throughout the presidency.

    He claimed he had not gotten to know disgraced Enron chief Ken Lay until after the 1994 Texas gubernatorial election. But Lay had been one of Bush's larger contributors during that election and had--according to Lay himself--been friends with Bush for years before it.

    In June 2001, Bush said, "We're not going to deploy a [missile defense] system that doesn't work." But then he ordered the deployment of a system that was not yet operational. (A June 2003 General Accounting Office study noted, "Testing to date has provided only limited data for determining whether the system will work as intended.")

    His White House claimed that it was necessary to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to "secure America's energy needs." But the US Geological Survey noted that the amount of oil that might be found there would cover up to slightly more than two years' worth of oil consumption. Such a supply would hardly "secure" the nation's needs. ...



    Oh man...

    Do I have to go on and mention Medicare etc?

    Im getting really depressed here...

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    Double Agent
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    3,603
    Great post, couldn't agree more

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    not to nitpick but as i read it several of those 'truths' don't contradict the 'lies'.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    Mathea's Avatar The Blonde Alibi BT Rep: +5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    NY
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,408
    EDUCATION

    Teacher training money is up. We've increased the teacher training and recruitment budget significantly."
    In his most recent budget, Bush proposed to freeze Teacher Quality State Grants - cutting off training opportunities for about 30,000 teachers, and leaving 92,000 less teachers trained than called for in his own No Child Left Behind bill. - House Appropriations Committee Report, 2004

    "In the budget I submit, the largest increase of any department will be for the Department of Education."
    Calculated by dollars, the biggest proposed budget increase ($14.2 billion) in Bush's FY2002 budget went to the Defense Department.


    MEDICARE

    "Some older Americans spend much of their Social Security checks just on their medications. Some cut down on the dosage to make a bottle of pills last longer. Elderly Americans should not have to live with those kinds of fears and hard choices. This new law will ease the burden on seniors and will give them the extra help they need."
    Under the new plan, seniors in the middle-income quintile will pay an average of $1,650 a year in out-of-pocket expenses for prescription drugs in 2006. This figure is nearly 60% more than they paid in 2000, even after adjusting for inflation. Expenses are projected to continue to rise so that by 2013 middle-income seniors will be paying more than two and a half times as much for prescription drugs (adjusting for inflation) as they did in 2000." - CEPR Report, 12/3/03


    ENVIRONMENT

    "In the years since Earth Day was established, America has made great strides in honoring the ideal of conservation and living by high standards of stewardship."
    "Three years into the current administration, the trend in environmental regulation is sledgehammer clear: this administration is the worst steward of the environment ever. So bad is the record, so long the list of environmental depredations, that it is difficult to pick the worst. The administration has gutted rules limiting deadly air pollution; undone protections against the filth of factory farms; proposed allowing industry to buy and sell permits to emit mercury, a known poison; slashed protections for the most pristine of our publicly owned forests; sought to permit oil-drilling in the crown jewel of the American wildlife refuge system; and more. " - Lisa Heinzerling, 2/25/04


    FOREIGN POLICY

    "The world is more peaceful and more free under my leadership."
    According to Amnesty International's 2003 annual report, "The world has become more dangerous, and governments more repressive, since the effort to fight terrorism began after the 9/11, attacks on the United States." For the U.S. specifically, "Since March, 353 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq, including 229 in hostile fire." - NY Times, 5/29/03; CNN, 10/28/03

    claim vs fact

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,254
    Even as I am stuck for time, I read the entire thread.

    This isn't what I asked for, Rat.

    I wanted a good-faith effort at dealing with things one point at a time, so as to allow a thread to develop in a way that others could follow, and in a way that would lend to coherence on both sides, not a huge snow-job of rhetoric along the lines of studies show; the evidence indicates, etc.

    What you've done is easy.

    What I propose is apparently too difficult for you.

    I thought my post (request, as you put it) was clear: ONE (1) point/"lie" at a time.

    The fact you choose to use the standard tactic of "overwhelming the opposition" ultimately indicates (to me, anyway) that if you tried it my way, your assertions would be properly dissected, and being aware of this, you flagrantly ignore the desired tack.

    So be it.

    I'm not writing a fucking book out of my own head, using my own thoughts and reasoning, in order that I might counter a cut-and-paste job.

    In case you've never noticed (and it is apparent that you have not), my posts are MY constructs; I make my own arguments and points-I don't appropriate others' work unattributed to backstop a view I hold-I do it all by myself.

    I think it's about time a few other people tried that.

    BTW-I am not accusing you of plagerism, merely of not posting your own thoughts.

    As to my "request", I hereby rescind it; it wasn't a very good idea, I guess.

    We can continue as we always have.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    Poster
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Xikitistan
    Posts
    189
    Dont blame George, its not his fault: hes just a puppet.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    15,388
    Well j2, given Rat's veritable shopping list of items to debate, couldn't you pick one and go from there?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    Mathea's Avatar The Blonde Alibi BT Rep: +5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    NY
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,408
    j2k4: at first I thought that u were wrong and u had not stated that you wanted it one at a time, but when writing that in my response I caught that you had. However, I agree with clocker in that you have quite alot of material, choose one thing and run with it.

    Also, I don't see the need for being rude :
    Originally posted by j2k4 @ 30 April 2004 - 00:43
    What I propose is apparently too difficult for you.
    The fact you choose to use the standard tactic of "overwhelming the opposition" ultimately indicates (to me, anyway) that if you tried it my way, your assertions would be properly dissected, and being aware of this, you flagrantly ignore the desired tack.
    Overwhelming that it might be.... you ask for examples of lies and it was given to you. It isn't expected for you to refute each one immediately. I wonder if perhaps it's that even though there may be arguement against some of them, you realize that there is no explaination for all of them other than GWB has lied to the people.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,254
    Rat-Faced and I are both veterans of this board, and we've been in on WN&E right from the go.

    He knew what I meant when I said one thing at a time, and likewise knew that I made the request, as I said, "in good faith".

    I do not say such things lightly, and I thought it reasonable to expect Rat would cooperate, as I see him (normally) as fair-minded.

    In any case, I would think by this point we understand each other, even if/when we don't agree.

    I was mildly surprised, after clicking on the thread, at what I found, and that prompted the ensuing rudeness, for which I offer my apologies to Rat-Faced here.

    As far as picking "one thing" to address, I think not, for two specific reasons:

    1. "One thing" leads to another, and before long, I've addressed the whole damn thing anyway, and this I will not do; I want to enjoy myself here.

    2. Does anyone remember Hypoluxa's Bush thread? I got raked on that one, too, even by Mods who said "why don't you just answer 10% of his list, j2?"

    There were, if memory serves, 123 items on the list.

    I don't mind being far in the minority here, in fact, I am rather happy with that circumstance, however I am not here to perform and be put through my paces like some trick pony.

    I'll let someone else fill that role.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    So if Rat Faced starts a new thread with one point per post (as requested), you'll answer his points?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •