Our Neighbors To The North

[BigBank_Hank]

We're going way of topic again and its my fault again, so this will be my last post (in this thread) defending the war against Iraq.

Ok RF this one's for you:link
There are more articles but it would take weeks to read all that.

@ Clocker: What everyone likes to say is that it was all President Bush's idea to invade Iraq, and what I was pointing out that it has been said for a long time that he needed to be ousted from power.

Of course Clinton would never invade Iraq nor would Kerry because that takes guts and neither of them have that. Kerry even said at a campaign speech in January or February of last year that "Saddam Hussein has WMD's and is threat to the United States and if you don't believe that then you shouldn't vote for me" now of course he's changes his position 100 times since then, but it just proves my point that this wasn't all Bush's idea.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@3 May 2004 - 20:24
nor would Kerry because that takes guts and neither of them have that.

you gotta be kidding. the guy who came back from Vietnam with a Silver Star is the gutless one, and the one who can't even account for his National Guard attendance is the one with guts? methinks you've got this "guts" thing all mixed up.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by SnnY+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SnnY)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>they should have done it for their fellow soldiers if nothing else.

This way someone else might have died in their stead.

I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s wrong to doubt the administration, but in the case of this desertion, maybe duty should have been attended to first.
[/b]

Why? If they had served in Iraq maybe they would be dead and their fellow soldiers would be still alive. I don&#39;t believe they should be forced to "do it for their fellow soldiers" at all. What if they didn&#39;t like their fellow soldiers? Why should they go to a war they don&#39;t agree with to be human shields for guys they hate?

"Do it for your mates" is the worst kind of pressure.

<!--QuoteBegin-BigBank_Hank
Signing up for the military is a job, and in every job sometimes you have to do things that you don&#39;t like to do. The circumstances may be different but its still their job, and that&#39;s what they signed up for. What the hell did they think they signed up for when they joined the military just to play pretend. [/quote]
So if enlisting in the military is a job, then shouldn&#39;t they have the right to quit if they feel that strongly? If you&#39;re working and given something to do that you think is wrong, would you put your beliefs and morals on the back burner all because your employer tells you you have to do something? [/b][/quote]
Quitting and is one thing but these clowns left the country. If they apposed the war and felt it was against their beliefs why didn&#39;t they stay and stand up for what they believe in?[/b][/quote]

Hank, I thing the point was that they didn&#39;t agree with the war, so they left. What would be the point of staying and whinging all the time? "I&#39;m going to stay in the army to show how much I don&#39;t want to be here" .

And like any other "job", some of it can be good and some of it can be bad. They may for instance have quite liked serving with a unit attached to a UN peace keeping mission, protecting innocent civilians and serving their countries commitments to the UN.

Perhaps they, like a lot of other people could see that Iraq was an overy political war (all war is political in some way, but not often as petty as Bush&#39;s reasons for it), and they decided they didn&#39;t want to be part of such a stupid mission.

I mean "OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM". Come on now, if that title isn&#39;t Bush blatantly trying to sell the invasion like a used car I don&#39;t know what is. The Pentagon have guys sitting around making up code names and then cross-referencing them against the mission to make sure nobody can guess what it is from the name.

Or maybe Operation Iraqi Freedom was meant to be in North Korea to really fuck with people&#39;s heads...

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@4 May 2004 - 04:24


Ok RF this one&#39;s for you:link
There are more articles but it would take weeks to read all that.

I&#39;m pretty sure I said "Had complied with or were in the process of complying with" at the time of the coalition invasion....

Im pretty sure the coalition never invaded in 1997....

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by Alex H@4 May 2004 - 01:38
Hank, I thing the point was that they didn&#39;t agree with the war, so they left. What would be the point of staying and whinging all the time? "I&#39;m going to stay in the army to show how much I don&#39;t want to be here" .

That&#39;s fine that they had a disagreement with the Presidents decision not everyone will agree with him on every thing. The point that they would make by staying would be to stand up for what the believe in and say that this isn&#39;t right and we&#39;re not going. RF and I were talking in another thread about being called for service and I asked if he would report to this war if called upon and he said that he had been called to go and he refused. The thing is he told them he wasn&#39;t going to go for he own reasons but he didn&#39;t leave the country. He took a stand and said I don&#39;t believe in the cause am I&#39;m not going to fight.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+4 May 2004 - 16:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank @ 4 May 2004 - 16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Alex H@4 May 2004 - 01:38
Hank, I thing the point was that they didn&#39;t agree with the war, so they left. What would be the point of staying and whinging all the time? "I&#39;m going to stay in the army to show how much I don&#39;t want to be here" .

That&#39;s fine that they had a disagreement with the Presidents decision not everyone will agree with him on every thing. The point that they would make by staying would be to stand up for what the believe in and say that this isn&#39;t right and we&#39;re not going. RF and I were talking in another thread about being called for service and I asked if he would report to this war if called upon and he said that he had been called to go and he refused. The thing is he told them he wasn&#39;t going to go for he own reasons but he didn&#39;t leave the country. He took a stand and said I don&#39;t believe in the cause am I&#39;m not going to fight. [/b][/quote]
I told em on the phone..

I never received paperwork (callup papers) so I dont know how i would have reacted to that.

I remember being quite upset at the time, and you may actually be able to dig up some posts in Jan/Feb last year, where i was telling people how pissed i was.

[Alex H]

Bugger, that sucks RF (not you, the situation).

Personally I&#39;m not sure what I would do if I was called up. There is a part of me that would say "Do your duty, you owe that to your family and friends", and then another part would say "Why should some guy in a suit tell me what my duty is? If he hadn&#39;t failed in his, I wouldn&#39;t be in this mess right now."

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@4 May 2004 - 12:36
I remember being quite upset at the time, and you may actually be able to dig up some posts in Jan/Feb last year, where i was telling people how pissed i was.

I went back and read some of those post from way back and it was quite good reading.

You had mentioned El Jefe in the other thread and now I see what you were talking about. He seemed like he was a real sharp guy and someone that I would have liked to have discussions with. I mean no disrespect to you by that, I like having discussions or more like debates with you. Although we have differences in opinion we still discuss that matter it respectfully.