I Am Sorry

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Neil__+15 May 2004 - 03:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ &#064; 15 May 2004 - 03:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@15 May 2004 - 03:46
We have the country and we certainly don&#39;t want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.

Yeah right

Like you want to hand over that strategic stronghold to a bunch of WASP atheists

America needs oil and Iraq is a stronghold

We&#39;ll wait and see if you&#39;ll ever leave their country

I doubt you ever will.

Neil [/b][/quote]
Then why did we ever leave Kuwait? We could have stayed there and taken their oil. They have plenty of oil, which Saddam wanted.

What is a WASP Athiest?

Why do you get rid of your leader because someone is killed by knife and not a gun.

Neil, I don&#39;t understand.

Changed last line because it was non-constructive.

[Neil__]

If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wishes.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Neil__@15 May 2004 - 04:27
If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wisheh.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil

I was right you are drunk&#33;

[Neil__]

Originally posted by hobbes+15 May 2004 - 04:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 15 May 2004 - 04:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Neil__@15 May 2004 - 04:27
If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wisheh.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil

I was right you are drunk&#33; [/b][/quote]
as a skunk

For once we completly agree.

Without you hobbes this forum sou&#39;ld be piontless.

Everyone needs hobes.

Neil

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 19:46
Could someone please explain why the Iraqi&#39;s are resisting? We have the country and we certainly don&#39;t want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.

The ideal situation for the US is a "friendly" regime.

It would seem the goal of the "resistance" is to keep to country in turmoil, disrupt any effort to stabilize and hope the Americans will leave when the death toll gets too high for the American public to stomach.

If we leave now, Iraq will either be invaded by her neighbors, who will slaughter all, or become a lawlesss land lead by warlords, as in Afghanistan. Both Iraq and the US lose here.

It would seem to me that the common citizen of Iraq should want the country to become peaceful and with a stable government in place. Any government has got to be better than a return to the Saddam status-quo. The resistance, in the end, will serve those who which to capitalize on the situation.

These are just my thoughts.

In order to understand that one has to stop thinking like an American or any other westerner and start thinking like an Arab.( which i can&#39;t do )

could it be that the resisting forces don&#39;t see the "american way of life" the same way as we do and reject to being forced to change ?
just because we think the way we do things is the best way doesn&#39;t mean everyone else does.
Saddam was a vicious dictator but he understood the arab mind and culture and his regime reflected that..... it may be unpallatable for us to accept but a western emulation of government in the middle east may never bring about the "level" of stability in the way that the brutal regimes of the likes of saddams did with all its inhumanities. ( i know it was far from perfect )
I make this point because fundamentalist groups such as al quada do not embrace democracy, so even a democratically elected government would have to be hardlined to bring any remote resemblance of peace. ( we could end up with violence such as with israel/palestine)
Remeber also that not all Arabs are one people even within one country and tribal wars are a strong factor.
Also remember that some of this violence is from "outside" factors and not from the iraqis.
I could never for the life of me imagine the USA being able to accept invasion and a different way of life being forced upon it and being expected to be "grateful" ( i can see the arguements now making the difference between us and the saddam regime but try to imagine it for the sake of the point so you could see the other guys view) I don&#39;t like Bush one bit but i would fight off any outside influence to remove him and be dictated to as to who could replace him.
Of course this is a very simplistic view of possibilities and there are arguements contray to this but it is just a suggestion in trying to figure out why a people might not be grateful at being invaded.

to sumarise, it&#39;s not about being grateful for removing one bad regime, they may well be grateful for that....but they don&#39;t want to be told how to make their own future.

[Neil__]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 May 2004 - 04:12
Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.

Hardly the most shining of examples, Mr FC

I remember you when you were a rebel.

Oh how the nighty have sucked up.

Neil

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

Originally posted by Neil__+14 May 2004 - 22:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ &#064; 14 May 2004 - 22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 May 2004 - 04:12
Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.

Hardly the most shining of examples, Mr FC

I remember you when you were a rebel.

Oh how the nighty have sucked up.

Neil [/b][/quote]
Whatever kid.I suck up to nobody.


I am just saying there is alot of Threads about this guy.More of a Rebel then you ever will be boy.

[hobbes]

vidcc,

I discussed this in another thread, but I think the huge gaff the US made was assuming that the factions remaining in Iraq have any interest in getting along.

A fear or hatred for Saddam was all that united these very different people. Iraq is a line drawn on a map which is forced upon a diverse group of people who have no common touchstone.

In the US, we have different races and religions, but we are all united under the concept of "freedom of the individual and the pursuit of happiness".

Our American minds attempt to extrapolate this to Iraq, wouldn&#39;t they love this grand idea.

No, they don&#39;t. The country is filled with people who would rather kill for their religious beliefs than accept a warm and fuzzy "free" government that would allow different sects and ethnicities to live side by side.

The situation is grave, I have no idea what the solution may be.


Edit: Vidcc, why do you make your threads so unpalettable to the eye. I hate reading them, though I like your posts. Give a brother some eye candy.

[muchspl2]

thread jack = denied

[vidcc]

Hobbes.

i must have missed that topic, i don&#39;t have the time i would like to read everything but i do read what i reply to
But basically you had the answer to your question before you posed it to us with the different ways of thinking.

Edit: Vidcc, why do you make your threads so unpalettable to the eye. I hate reading them, though I like your posts. Give a brother some eye candy.

here you go