Free Will

[Canadian Knight]

WOW!

That was a good 30 min-45 min read lol.

I'm not smart or anything, what's an agnostic? is that like an Athiest?

After reading and thinking...

Wouldnt some people assume that "God" or an Omnipotent being gave us free will?

Sure God might know what choices I will make, that does not restrain me from my everyday life of what I want to do. Sure God knows I'm going to go to the bathroom, or catch a cold. Sure he knows when a crime might be taking place. The fact God does not interfere with our daily lives must be proof that we indeed have "Free Will." So a Higher being knows what I will have for lunch. Atleast he doesnt force me to eat peas and carrots like my parents did when I was a child. Now, that's having no free will there, growing up.

Not trying to try start a debate or keep 1 going.

[longboneslinger]

My my my.....what interesting debates we get into at 'FILEsharing.com'.

Try this.
1: Those who believe in the Christian God get our beliefs from a book called the Bible, maybe you've heard of it.

As for free will: God refers to us as his children. Most fathers can predict what thier kids are gonna do to a remarkable degree. Why? We know our kids. I don't have any, but I have a huge passle of nieces, nephew, and assorted cousins. I know, for instance, that if I tell my cousin July (Shes 9) that she can't spend the night with us, she'll pitch a hissy fit. I don't make her, it's sitll her choice to be a big girl. That I know affects her not at all.

Perhaps He was lonely. We were created in his image and we know lonliness, so might He. Perhaps He didn't make us perfect because perfect would be boring. He wanted us to grow to perfection. Thats why the question of "Why did God let this happen.." is pointless. He didn't, we did. Freewillie.....errr........free will in action. I know for example that my cousin Kim is in love with a possessive loser who's gonna break her heart. It's still her choice. She's grown, and like us, can exercise free will.

In an aside, a friend knew that when I stupidly put a shim under my Athlon XP2500+ I'd Bork it. He was right. Does that make it his fault? Did it die because of him? Because he 'knew'?

EDIT:Congrats. You're even more long winded than me!

[ZaZu]

Originally posted by Johnny_B@16 May 2004 - 20:07
Is free will real or just an illusion?

For those of you who believe in an omniscient and omnipotent God, consider this:

How can we have free will if God, as an omniscient entity, already knows what your choices will be?

If God,knowing what choice you are going to make does not intervene then the choice made is yours ... that He knew what the choice would be proves His omniscience

[cpt_azad]

someone prove me wrong here (pls, i really don't know if it's flawed)

my little theory/exp.

k, if god is all-knowing and all-powerful, as stated b4 me, if knows exactly wat ur going to do so it's a contradiction to free will, here goes:

suppose u build a time machine and u go forward, oh say, a week to the next thursday. then u observe one of ur friends for that entire day and write down everything he/she does that day in a book, go back in time and give ur friend the book, tell him/her to read it, and then tell him/her to do everything differently on thursday then wat the book states, PURE CONTRADICTION.

if god already knew wat u were going to do (ie no free will, all-knowing mega-being) on thursday (future) and that person did those things while another observed him/her and then went back in time and told that person to do everything differently than wat he/she did on thursday, then surely god is not all-knowing and therefore not all-powerful think about it, and pls prove me wrong, i'm getting scared here :helpsmile: :helpsmile: maybe this is a reason we can't travel in time, if there is a god, maybe it doesn't want us to meddle wit his masterpiece (universe, humans, etc.)

[longboneslinger]

Hey cap, you're assuming that God doesn't know that you're going to next Thursday, writing down all that crap, that you're going to tell you're friend and He won't know what your friend is going to do with the information.

If he/she can change that day, freewilly....er...will is proven, but only freewill. You haven't proven that God didn't know what would happen. What, did you think God would be fooled by a mere time machine? He created time, so it'll have no mysteries for Him.

[cpt_azad]

no, god knows wat's going to happen, he knows ur going forward in time. but the point is IF god pre-determined wat ur friend is going to do on thursday, then surely u cannot change the chain of events on thursday for ur friend even if u show/tell him wat he is "supposed" to do on thursday. simply put, if ur friend does things absolutely differently on thursday then wat u observed, free will is REAL and god is still all-knowing (if there is a god) but does not control u in that way (fate, pre-determination, blah blah blah), but if ur friend cannot change the chain of events of thursday (forced to by some supernatural force), then surely god is real (or some mega-all-knowing being) and there is no free will, my "theory" shows that both possibilities are true (both pre-determination [no free will], and free will can be true, but one has to prove the other wrong), yet they both are false, until we actually build a time machine to test this "theory" (highly unlikely), then i guess we really will never know. personally, i believe there is a god, but i do believe there is free will (thus the "prove me wrong"), now if u'll excuse me, i'm gonna make an attempt to make a time machine

[Barbarossa]

Well...

Since time travel is not possible, you cannot use it as an example that proves that God isn't omnipotent. That's nonsense.


It's like saying:

Originally posted by imaginary

To determine whether light travels in straight lines  ***  , if I could see round corners then light doesn't travel in straight lines, therefore light doesn't travel in straight lines. (Now I gotta work out a way to see round corners&#33

Clear gibberish! B)

(*** Not counting any relativistic gravitational lens effects. )

[cpt_azad]

Not counting any relativistic gravitational lens effects

damnit, i was gonna use that as my rebuttle , ya, time travel is not possible, but i guess i kinda wanted to make an analogy (obviously i'm not saying that anyone's ever going to try this experiment) but i guess it backfired :helpsmile: :helpsmile:

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Canadian Knight@14 June 2004 - 07:19
...I'm not smart or anything, what's an agnostic? is that like an Athiest?...

Kind of, but not really. Agnostic generally allows for the possibility of a diety to exist, but requires some sort of evidence before ruling on the existence of any diety.

[j2k4]

What a stunningly magnificent load of bollocks you all have contributed to, here.

Profound indeed, but not in so sustained a manner as to be even the least bit boring.

My congratulations to the executive producer of this fine mess!